How would you articulate the low-A to high-A ‘snap’ in the second part of this strathspey?
A throat articulation seem to work best for me. But I havent been playing that long so wondered what others might do with this tune …
X:1
T:Captain Campbell
R: strathspey
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Am
|: EB c>AB<G | DA B>d c/B/A/G/ | EB c>Bc<e | dB A2 A2 
[| Ag e>dc<e | d>eg>e d/c/B/A/ G<B | Ag e>dc<e | dB A2 A2 |
Ag e>dc<e | d>eg>e d/c/B/A/ G<B | cB e>dc<e | dB A2 A2 |]
Thanks
Ian
I would probably use tongueing. However as I can’t play that tune completely I can’t say for sure, but tongueing works much better for me there than a glottal stop/throat stop.
What do you want to articulate? As in which note? I don’t know this tune, but that kind of figure I would usually do something like tongue or breath-push the first low A, slur to the raised high A and either cut between that and the second one or maybe play the first one a little short - kinda semi staccato - and push the start of the second one, with or without a cut or tap. I would almost certainly never articulate the first high A. Slurred octave time!
OK, I’ve had a proper look at this with a flute to hand (i.e. not just sitting in a car imagining…) - wouldn’t really change much from what I wrote yesterday - the to-me-natural basic thing to do is to slur the semi-quaver/dotted quaver pairs regardless of which way round they are, but maybe to tongue at least some of the front notes in each pairs - after all, strathspeys are fairly jerky things! You (can) get the snappiness with good, crisp fingering changes without any extra finger articulation. It might be idiomatically effective to also (or sometimes instead) tongue-articulate some of the back notes - in which case you can either use “t” or “k” or a glottal… tonguing both notes in a pair “t-t” or “t-k” is effective too. That applies throughout the tune - player’s discretion as to how much of what to use where…
It is of course perfectly possible to use finger articulations (cuts/taps) on the second notes of the pairs, but how desirable that is on flute in strathspeys - both technically to do and in terms of how it sounds would be down to personal choice.
As for the specific query about the A octave jump that comes up twice in the B-music, I see no difference in that from any of the other snapped pairs, save for the technical one on flute/whistle that you have to overblow it and there is no fingering change to add “pop”. When you do an upwards slurred octave jump you have a choice in how smoothly or poppily you force the harmonic to take over from the fundamental - you can use careful lip-aperture narrowing for a smooth change or you can use a slight breath push at the same time as a snappy aperture change to get a bit of a pop in the sound (visualise the node in the sound wave popping into existence) - no other articulation needed. You can work towards this by doing a “p” articulation at the point you want to shift octave - just press your lips together to gently close the aperture and simultaneously force air through them with a light push from the abdomen - indeed, you can even keep that as a playing option, or work on through it as a practice technique to get that poppy octave jump without actually letting your lips touch.
Bottom line is that you should not need to articulate that first high A (by finger or airstream stop) just because you are changing octaves. Only do so because you want a particular effect there.
The A4 → A5 slur is not straightforward on our conicals. Faced with this, the sneaky 19th century player would probably have looked for a viable alternative fingering for A5, so that the slur is between two oscillatory regimes, rather than within one. An example would be A5 as the third harmonic of D4 (Low D). How well it works may depend on your flute, and it still might not sit well among the other fingering of the tune. But if you want to try it, this would be an approach.
Play Low D, then, without changing fingering, middle D, then A5. Compare it with the usual A5 to confirm. With the sound and pressure needed for A5 in mind, finger A4 → D4, but increasing pressure to the A5 level.
The even sneakier 19th century player would also look for possible vent holes that would stabilise the 3rd harmonic of D4 by making the two lower partials unviable, eg xxo xxx. So try xxo ooo → xxo xxx with some extra pressure as you add the extra fingers. Tuning might go a bit sharp, but might be adequate, again depending on your particular flute. You can also try xxx’ xxx, where the apostrophe is the G# key.
Sneaky, those 19th century flute players …
Terry
Terry, I’m not arguing with anything else you wrote, but what exactly is the problem with the simple overblown slur with the normal fingering such as I suggested? I have never noticed any difficulty with it on any flute, conoid or otherwise, either standing alone or by comparison with similar slurred octave jumps on other notes.
I think it probably depends on the flute in question (and maybe the player in question!). I wouldn’t rate myself as a great octave-slurrer (hmmm, slurrist?), but maybe that’s because it’s not a common move in Irish music. Indeed, I can’t think of any tune I play that features octave leaps, though just noodling, it wouldn’t be hard to write one!
Now of course we will all be inundated with well-known Irish tunes that feature octave leaps …
And Denny will deftly direct us to where this has been discussed before!
Terry, seeking cover from the deluge under an overhanging A5 …
Indeed, I can’t think of any tune I play that features octave leaps, though just noodling, it wouldn’t be hard to write one!
Now of course we will all be inundated with well-known Irish tunes that feature octave leaps …
Not inundated…but there are three tunes that get played a lot in our sessions that have octave jumps, the Gravel Walk, the Musical Priest, and Jenny’s Chickens.
The Gravel Walk has the same jump from A first octave to A second octave as has been discussed. My own way of playing the relevant part:
BAGB | Az ~a2 gAfA
There are of course many many more ways to handle the jump.
–James
OK, (FWIW & IMO), big jumps like slurred octaves are the kind of thing that transverse flutes are really good at - they are comparatively easy to do (as opposed to on other instruments) and are bread-and-butter techniques/expectations; whether or not they crop up much in ITM, one ought fairly easily to be able to accomplish them - a little practice and you’ll have ‘em. I’m by no means anyone’s idea of a proficient classical player and only a moderate trad one, yet to me slurred octaves are just… there (to be done). Whilst I think Terry’s points about C19th classical players’ alternate methods are valid in general, I seriously doubt any of those folk would have advocated such an approach for a simple low A to middle A jump - they’d have said, “go practice slurred octaves”. One can do/make use of Terry’s supplementary techniques, but in this context I think they obfuscate the issue - get your basic techniques up to scratch! Doing slurred octaves up and down the scale is in any case an excellent embouchure control work-out that helps with clarity in both octaves, certainty of getting the one you want and intonation between the octaves (e.g. avoiding playing sharp in the L hand of the 2nd 8ve).
Have you tried a quick B cut (basically a “blip”) with your LH index finger? Haven’t tried it on this tune, but it works for me on Gravel Walks and other repeating A things.
In the relevant bit of Gravel Walk I play ~A2 aA gAfA all slurred, save that I may tongue the initial A roll… slur up from the back-end of the A2 roll to the high A and back down again to the pedal point A and up to the G…etc.
In this strathspey one certainly can cut (or tap) the first high A as one jumps up from the low A, but I think that is actually harder than a clean slurred octave, maybe over-does things, and the fingered separation is better used between the two consecutive high As - one could of course do both… But if one seriously wants to articulate the first high A rather than just slur into it, I think a tongued articulation is more effective. Let’s remember, this is a Scots tune - ITM idioms not strictly necessary/wholly transferrable.
What’s happened to the OP? Are we getting anywhere here, helping at all?
Good point, especially if it’s a fiddle tune. However, if you consider it from a piping angle I imagine the cut would be acceptable in either tradition.
If playing this tune on the pipes the B cut, G tap, or completely closing the tube between the A’s would be the primary options, and since there are a few of us flute players out here who pursue piping’s finger-articulated style, I still think the cut’s a viable alternative. I might combine the cut with a “kuh” or a glottal stop, but if the goal’s to achieve a “snap” I don’t think I’d slur it.
Interesting that my Baroque flute teacher just gave me an exercise to work on just this issue…
Play slowly and evenly, keeping in tune:
G4 slur cleanly to G5, slur back down to A4
A4 slur cleanly to A5, slur back down to B4
B4…
C4 slur cleanly up to C5… then run it back down in reverse
IM(very H)O, any of these kinds of exercises that work on clean octave/harmonic slurs, long tones and pitch are very useful for getting us along to where we want to go. This is a good one as it kind of incorporates all three into one.
Clinton
I wonder how a fiddler would bow it? Would they change bow-direction or simply swap strings in the same bow?
To my way of thinking, it is the first, short note that is the “snap”, not the second, dotted one - make the first as snappy as you like! It is also perhaps a bit analogous to an appogiatura. I might well tongue (or glottal or cut/tap) that, and maybe play the second element semi-staccato, as I said previously - slurred into but not held for it’s full time-value, a little silence before the next note.
Change direction. That’s the classic bowing for a snap. Normally, down on the short note and up on the long, but with the short note played less heavy than the long note (like some kind of reverse accent or something). You’d also, in that kind of phrase, often see a G just before the short note. If the g was played, then the bowing would probably be to slur onto the short note. and then change bow direction.
If you follow that lot, I reckon it has implications for playing on whistle or flute as well. I reckon the snap probably needs something like a glottal stop, or at any rate a very brief gap, between the short note and the long note (ie not quite what Jem says - I wouldn’t bother with a gap between the long note and the one following, personally). I also think this is different from the case with tunes like The Gravel Walks, where the rhythm is completely different, and Jem’s articulation works perfectly well (assuming one can do it, which I’m not sure I can just yet 
).
Thanks for the fiddler’s input, Ben. I think this is moving towards needing sound-samples… will see what I can do if I have time tomorrow…
I’m still here, lurking, trying to soak up (and try out) all these different ideas!
As you say, it is a Scots tune, an I think the notation doesnt really get across the snap. I think the “a<A” has a ratio thats more like 1:3 instead of 1:2. (I’ve only been playing the flute a year, and the whistle a year before that, so I may be talking complete rubbish 
) So far the glotal / thoat thing works best for me, since I can do it faster, and with less disruption to the air flow.
Thanks
Ian
Glad we’re getting somewhere, then! One thing, a semi-quaver is in a 1:3 ratio to a dotted quaver (which is worth 3 semiquavers, of course). The ABC notation translates to the staff thus, not as 1:2 - the “<” does not mean that.
(A 1:2 ratio would [have to] be notated as semi-quaver - quaver, which wouldn’t add up to the required total in the bar in this context/pattern and would require different ABC notation … 
)
As I said before, a “scotch snap” is quite similar to a short appoggiatura in classical terms. You could write it “{A/}a2” in ABC which would translate to the staff as a semi-quaver grace note leading into a crotchet, the grace to be played on the beat and its time to be taken from the crotchet… much the same effect! In fact, I think that is perhaps a better, if fussier notation - I think that when played, scotch snaps are actually even shorter on the front note than a full semi-quaver value/1:3 ratio - but they are conventionally notated thus. Try putting the ABC through a midi playback which will observe the strict time-values and you’ll see what I mean - the snaps are a bit laggard for my ear! I’m no expert on Scottish music, though.
I’m surprised you find a glottal easier/faster than a “t” or “k” with the tongue (but then, I’m not into glottals myself…).
On another tack, we’ve had some fiddle input. How would a GHB player do this, I wonder? Is the tune playable on pipes anyway (presumably not without octave folding/melodic adaptation somewhere as the tune’s tessitura is more than a ninth). Cat has mentioned the Irish piping approach, but GHB is presumably more relevant, with its very strict catalogue of correct gracing. Even if the pipes can’t do this tune as writ, or maybe even an A-a octave jump, how do they approach gracing a strathspey? Do they normally (ever?) grace the second element in a scotch snap (whatever its interval) and if so, how, or do they just do a straight, ungraced, normal note fingering shift (slurred)? Of course, they don’t have the end-stopped silence/popping option anyway.
Video clip experimenting with this tune now posted on Facebook. Information about what I tried to do/did on the blurb on FB. It should be visible to everyone.