I’m new here and… let’s say more than new to the fute as I still have not tried it !
I’ve been playing the high and low whistles for around 2 years but really seriously for 6 months. I’ve also started playing the Uillean pipes in Sept. last year. I’m initially a pianist who has stopped playing music for many years and is back (very enthusiastically, I have to admit !!) to music but now TIM more than anything else.
I’m of course suffering the WhOA… and on top of this, it’s been a while I’ve considered trying the flute. I leave in the south of France and it is a real pain to find other TMI musicians here => Difficult to get hold of somebody who could let me try his/her flute.
So I’ve decided to buy a delrin flute telling myself that for a beginner this may be an appropriate choice. If in the worst case I fail then it’s not too much money spoiled. Then taking into consideration the fact that I’m pretty stuborn and persist despite the pain and finally succeed in playing this instrument, then I can purchase a nicer flute once I’m sure it is worthwhile.
I’ve read good comments on the Dixon 3-pieces delrin flute so this is the one I have in mind at the moment. I’ve also heard about the Tipple Flute. Then I’ve seen that some flute makers make delrin flute but at a higher cost (I understand this, no pb).
So my questions to you, experienced flute players are the following:
Does all this sound nonsense to you ? Or do you also recomand a delrin flute to start with ?
Is the Dixon 3-pices a good choice ? Or any better idea ? I’ve had bad feedback of the combined LowD/lute from Dixon, so i’m not considering this. And anyway, I already have expensive low Ds o not interested by this instrument…
I guess the question would be: What do you want to do with the flute?
The Dixon 3pc I’ve tried was a fine instrument, very easy to play, good sound and good ergonomics. Not particularly loud though, maybe not loud enough for sessions (although louder than a low D whistle of course).
The alternative would be to get a R&R or Pratten style polymer flute which would resemble the flutes you might play in the future should you keep playing ITM (Irish Traditional Music). These flutes (I’m talking about M&E, Forbes, Seery, etc) are session ready, you just have to learn to play them.
Tipples are probably great for their price tag. But there’s something to be said for buying local (UK is closer than US). If you just want to try and see if the flute is anything for you, a Tipple might best serve your purpose. But if you do go ahead and buy a conical bore, polymer flute with tuning slide and everything, that will serve you for the rest of your life, or if you decide it isn’t for you, you can always sell it at close to what you paid for it.
And yes, polymer/delrin is great. You won’t dry the flute out even if you drink lots and lots of
whisky
At present I do not have plans to play in sessions. These are pretty rare in my area although I’ve started meeting some ITM musicians around here recently. But anyway, at present I’m too much of a beginner ! This will (hopefully) come in due time. So I’m not too concerned about not being loud enough… i’ll always be loud enough to my neighbours !
Thanks a lot for your advices, Henke. I’m just wondering whether a delrin “high end” flute (is this the appropriate term for saying “expensive” ?) would not a bit more difficult to play for a beginner than a Dixon 3 piece ?
If not then you are right, I may consider purchasing one of these rather than the Dixon, getting prepared for the future…
I had a Tony Dixon 3 piece for a while and it was grand - the tone holes are small, so easier to seal. My only crib with it was that the upper joint was a bit wobbly, the cork was a bit on the thin side but that was only a small complaint. There are other plastic flutes such as one made by Des Seery that have larger holes etc. and are more challenging according to people who write here. There are also good reports here about the Dave Copley plastic flutes which I think are mid priced.
But you’re taking on a lot - the pipes require a lot of work and the flute needs daily practice. Whistles you can leave around the place and pick up when the humour takes you!! Something to be said for sticking to pipes or flute for a few years and then diversify..
You are right. This is what has up to now kept me away from trying the flute… I try to pracrtise my UPs everyday. For the whistles, I can take them with me anywhere. It is a bit more difficult to take my UPs (even if I only have a practise set) anywhere. I tell myself that bringing the flute anywhere will not be a pb, so easier to practise it in most circumstances, in comparison. Let’s say that after so many years away from music, I cannot stand the idea of stopping again, even for a few days.
I had the Tipple, the Copley Delrin and recently the Dixon. They are all great flutes but, considering the value for the money, and adding my personal preference for tapered - not cylindrical- flutes, I would go for the Dixon.
The new one, with brass rings, looks gorgeous and it has a new reduced price, less than $ 200.00.
This is almost a half of the Copley and, in my humble opinion, it is a great bargain.
However, if you are looking for a loud flute, then the Tipple and the Copley are louder.
Nobody ever said that playing a transverse flute could be a “natural” thing to do, and it simply will take some time and effort to adapt to the flute.
Moreover, pain is not good, not good at the moment it happens, and not good for one’s long term career.
For instance, the careers of pianists have come to an end because they continued to play while in pain, and the same has happened to flute players, too.
So, if you experience pain while playing a flute, then stop, and see if you could then find a way to play without such pain.
it’s possible the pain reference was to the pain endured by those listening… unless specified we can only guess… i’m inclined to see a bit of tongue in cheek given the smiley face…
I’ve owned polymer flutes by Dixon, Seery, M&E, and Copley, also a few inexpensive sealed wooden flutes by Sweet.
I’d say the Dixon and Copley are the easiest to get a decent sound from. The Dixon, as has been said, is also very easy on the hands, as the holes are very small. That said, the sound doesn’t have the potential that any of the other flutes have – I just couldn’t get the big, round sound from it that I could from any of the other flutes. The Sweet is a very light flute, and wonderful to play when you’re a little bit tired, but I find it a little more difficult to get a good sound from, as the head is thinner than the others. The M&E and Seery are both very heavy, and also head-heavy – acetal is heavy, the heads are thick, and the slides are heavy. For a polymer flute, my favorite is the Copley. It’s the one I still own. I still have a Sweet, too.
When in Quimper in fall 2007, I tried a delrin flute made by Glen LeBot (you can find his contact details on the Flute Maker sticky on top of the page). As far as I could tell from the quick tryout in the shop, it was an easy player with good loud, round sound. Optically pleasing, too. His prices are moderate, I think. A bit more expensive than Seery et al, but worth considering IMHO.
So, if you experience pain while playing a flute, then stop, and see if you could then find a way to play without such pain.
That is important![/quote]
Jiminos is right, the pain I was refering to was not real pain It’s the kind of pain I feel when something I desperatly wish to achieve turns out being difficult to reach…
As any beginner with the pies, I often encounter the death grip, but this is always the signal for me that I have to stop practising, leave the pipe on the side, take my whistles instead and come back to it a couple of hours later.
My wooden flute cracked a few months ago. In the intervening time, I’ve extensively “test driven” a Copley (In fact I bought it for my GF who was looking for a backup flute. Hers cracked as well ). I’ve also tried the Dixon 3- piece in a non superficial way.
The Copley is everything Chas said it is. I am able to produce a much more full tone with it than the Dixon. It is easy to make “loud” if that’s what you want. More importantly, my experience is that is plays with better intonation. It is a very good flute in its own right; the only things “entry level” about it are the lack of a tuning slide and the material.
If you have any tendency to wrist strain, I would avoid the M & E for ergonomic reasons. I started on one and experienced a lot of wrist pain. I thought it was ‘normal.’ It isn’t. My current is a keyed flute with an unlined headjoint and it is sooo much more comfortable to play.
I’d be interested to know how you guys rank the Forbes and M&E delrin flutes compared to the Seery, Copley, Dixon, etc. I too will possibly be in the market for a upgrade from my Tipple within the next year.
I’ve owned and/or test driven the Copley, M&E, and Seery. Hands down, I think the Copley is the best delrin I’ve tried. In fact it’s the only flute of the 3 I kept for a while and played in sessions. Main difference: intonation is excellent on the Copley compared to the others. Also, the Copley has a “cutting” tone that is easily heard in sessions. Plus, though the Copley does not have slide, it is very “tunable” due to its very thin tenon with no cork or thread.
If interested in hearing how the Copley sounds, some of the tunes in my clips link below are played on the Copley delrin slideless, e.g. Out on the Ocean, Castle Kelly.
I’ve got a Forbes D and a Copley Eb and they’re both great. The Copley’s square-cut blowhole might make it a bit easier to get a fat sound out of right away, but you can’t go wrong with either, you really can’t.
The Forbes has bigger, more Prattenlike toneholes, bore, etc.; the Copley has smaller fingerholes. The Forbes has a tuning slide of sorts, but the Copley has enough room at the joints to adjust your tuning.
The Copley has more heft to it, FWIW – it seems thicker-walled, which gives it a rather satisfying feel, while the Forbes is lighter and “buzzier” and very lively but still capable of a good hard D.
Both flutes are also capable of that nice overtoney “bark;” the Eb in particular is easy to get a ripping sort of sound out of like the old geezers did. I love to play it with a bodhran alongside.
Why everyone doesn’t have one or the other of these as a backup I’ll never know. I played my Forbes at an early St. Pat’s gig this year when it was too cold for my wooden flute and, as always, it was just huge.
I just got an 8 key M&E rosewood flute and I love it. I believe it is their rudall and rose model. I think the Polymer flute is from the same design. I would highly recomend M&E flutes. They arer very easy to play. They also say that they sometimes have used or 2nd hand polymer flutes. You ought to call them and see if they have anything they could give you for a deal on a used instrument.
I’m a connoisseur of delrin/polymer flutes. I’ve owned a Seery, M&E, Dixon 3 piece and I’ve played a Copley, an antique ebonite Chappelle, and a Tipple (as well as several PVC flutes I made myself). I’d really like to try a Forbes, but I’ve not the opportunity.
There are positives and negatives about all these flutes - just like with any wooden flute (except perhaps an Olwell…I’ve yet to hear a negative about an Olwell apart from the long wait for keys, or the lack of low C, C# keys).
If you’re not 100% sure you want to stick with flute, unless you have a lot of extra money, the Dixon 3 piece under $200 is a fantastic deal. I think the post is too far buried to be able to find via search, but I know Pat Olwell played a board member’s Dixon and really made it sing. I think the Dixon is undervalued, played mainly by new players or by experienced players only trying a newbie’s flute, and it can do much more than most people think. I can think of several excellent musicians playing small holed flutes who get a very large sound out of their flute. So much of a flute’s sound is the player not the flute itself.
That said, a tuning slide is really handy if you play with wonky box players, and the M&E, Dixon and Copley (although I can’t recall how tunable the tennon is…I seem to recall it being nearly as good as a slide) are all very adaptable, session ready instruments…but they’re different. The M&E is very rudallish in nature (tuning quirks and all), yet it’s very versatile (it’s what I current play and traded in my Seery for). The Seery is seriously prattenesque. The Copley is in the middle here in playing characteristics. The ideal situation is to try them all and buy what you like best - there really isn’t a bad choice - especially since all will sound similar until you’re a much better player.
and persist despite the pain and finally succeed in playing this instrument, then I can purchase a nicer flute once I’m sure it is worthwhile.
- the pipes require a lot of work and the flute needs daily practice. Whistles you can leave around the place and pick up when the humour takes you!! Something to be said for sticking to pipes or flute for a few years and then diversify..
). I’ve also tried the Dixon 3- piece in a non superficial way.