Hello,
I am wondering about flutes that are listed keyless and those with keys. Can anyone tell me if one is easier or more versatile to play etc. Why would someone want a keyed flute instead of a keyless flute? I am new at the Irish whistle and am thinking about picking up a flute and would appreciate any advice. I have seen some nice wooden flutes and since I live in a desert atmosphere I think some other material might be better suited for my location. The main issue is Keyed or Keyless…which would you consider the best and why?
Thanks..Scottie
hi scottie,
-a keyed wooden flute is about 3 times more expensive than a keyless.
-most Irish Trad music is in D, no need for keys there.
-a keyed flute is much harder to play.
the cheapest good wooden flutes go for 250$, that’s a Casey Burns now.
if you you’re looking for even cheaper, go for a Doug Tipple pvc.
there’s the polymer M&E, wich is better.
i wouldn’t go for anything more expensive yet.
good luck!
I just got back from a four hour session.
Out of all the tunes played this afternoon, TWO (maybe three!) were unplayable without keys.
D@mn fiddlers.
Howdy and welcome to the board.
I’d add a hearty amen to what’s been said. Start with a keyless flute. If you want something keyed later chances are you’ll want to upgrade to a costlier flute as well. Some makers can add keys later. M&E, Seery, Healy and Burns come to mind but anyone who does post-mounted keys can do it later. If you want to spend less than $400, I would start with an M&E or Burns. They are great bang for the buck. If you have a little more dough the field is wide open.
I have a keyed flute and scarcely ever use the keys.
Have fun,
Doc
Disclaimer: Doc Jones sells some of the flutes mentioned above so he shouldn’t really be saying nice things about them. This message should not be used as a flotation device.
But, you know, you’re not selling some of them and you’re still saying nice things about them, and you’re not selling them for mercenary reasons, but as a public service. Which makes all the difference! 
I’d suggest finding people who have both types and playing them, to see which you like more then deciding which (if either) to get.
Scottie doesn’t play flute, and is “new at the Irish whistle”. That’s why he/she is asking which way to go from the start, keyed or keyless. So playing both types to see which one he/she “likes more” is a good idea but practically impossible.
Scottie, keyed flutes allow you to play chromatically (depending on the number of keys fitted), ie in any key. But since (as Lixnaw has pointed out) most folk and trad music is in one or two sharps, a keyless D flute is all you need for the thousands of tunes in this genre.
If you’re only interested in playing Irish traditional or folk tunes at the moment, then go for a keyless. Flute is a long haul, it’ll take time to learn how to play it (unlike a whistle, which can make a satisfying noise throughout its range in next to no time).
By the time you’ve got the tone you want and can play competently, you’ll have a better idea of whether or not you’d like to then get a keyed flute and branch out (chromatically speaking). imho.
Hope this helps.
If you live in a desert a keyless polymer is probably the way to start. If you get a wooden flute, make sure to get an airtight case with humidifier and oil it regularly, it would probably be all right if you did that. I agree that keyless is the way to start, but I’d have to dissagree with lixnaw that a keyed flute is harder to play, you could still play it as a keyless. It’s just a cost issue and the fact that you don’t need the keys for most trad tunes. If you’re willing to part with all that money however I can see no reason not to get a keyed flute, except perhaps a longer wait from some makers, a keyed flute would definately give you more freedom in the music you could create, but you wouldn’t need them initially.
Getting to play different types of flutes certainly can’t hurt.
Which part of “Scottie doesn’t play flute” is giving you the trouble? If someone who’s never driven before was thinking of upgrading from a bicycle to a car, would you be telling them to get behind the wheel of a Ferrari and a Ford and try them both out on the freeway?
Flutes aren’t whistles. Someone who’s never touched a flute before might get lucky and get a sound first time. Hardly the basis on which to decide whether to buy a keyless or keyed flute, particularly where the cost of a keyed flute is so high (and keyless doesn’t come cheap either).
It wouldn’t if Scottie could actually play one. There is this learning-curve thing that is kind of steep with flute, and it makes it mostly impossible to do very much with a flute for some months. Years, maybe.
Trust me on this, Cran. I’ve had recent personal experience with it. Early on, I couldn’t have discriminated between a flute and rolling pin, much less between the sounds of different flutes.
In fact, had I been able to try an actual flute, I’m certain that I would have given up instantly. The horror of it would have been too much.
I think the way for anybody to go is with a Tipple or a good bamboo, and after they have a clue or two and have had a chance to think about it, to get an intermediate flute.
Yep!
Something with a good embouchure, in tune with itself and under $100.
Learn to play flute first.
The initial question was “Keyed or Keyless”…
The initial problem, with learning flute, is whether the learner has the persistence to develop a decent embouchure. If that works out you may know enough to make a decision on what to type flute to try next. …and then you get to the question of Keyed or Keyless.
desert atmosphere - Tipple.
Tipples also bounce better when you drop them!
Denny
I want to thank all of you for your advice and opinions. It is very helpful. I do not think I would have much difficulty with the embouchure since I used to play around a little with a basic concert type flute about twenty years ago. I was really shocked to see the prices on some of the irish flutes I viewed ($1295.00) WOW! I like the $100 versions first. I think one of those would work just fine. Does Doug Tipple have a web site? I was looking for some inexpensive flutes but have not found a site that shows just irish type flutes in the low to high price range. Any direction would be appreciated.
Thanks…Frank (scottie)
Here’s a link for Brad Hurley’s page: http://www.firescribble.net/flute/makers.html
It doesn’t have Doug Tipple on there, but you can find his flutes on eBay by searching for Tipple.
Eric
You can see a whole bunch here: www.irishflutestore.com
I can remember the first time I “tried” a flute. Being a total novice I picked it up and held it in a position where there was no chance of sound. The vendor gently steered me to an ocarina. Maybe I should have gotten the fancy keyed ocarina, instead of the painted-fish keyless model .
Tipple is the way to go because of price, quality and material. Unless $250 is a nominal sum for a person, that is a lot of money to take a chance and perhaps find out that practice to establish an embouchure is like pulling teeth, or the transverse position is pain inducing.
Phi Flutes are in the same price range as Tipple, but only one or two board members have tried them.
After many years of playing whistle, I just got a Tipple and I am wondering what took me so long.
I really think a lot of people (especially on this forum) over estimate the difficulty of playing flute. Sure, it’s difficult to learn to play well, but that’s true for any instrument.
I’ve acted as shopkeep for some cheap (renfaire) bamboo flutes before, and generally find myself hanging around the bamboo or pvc flutes - or ralph sweet when he’s around - at renfaires and music festivals and such like. Trying out the flutes is irresistable even if I’m not going to buy.
About one in three people can make a sound with just a moments fiddling. Most people take five to fifteen minutes just to make a -sound-. Most of them can’t hold that - usually weak and airy - sound for more than a moment. (Actually, most people take 30 seconds to 2 minutes to decide they can’t and never will be able to make a sound. However…)
To be able to just play a (truncated) scale of the lower octave is probably an half-an-hour to an hour’s work for most people. I don’t mean play it in tune, I mean, actually get any sound out of each fingering. The different air and embouchure requirements as you go up and down baffle most people at first. As soon as the move more than one note away from where they first achieved a sound, they lose it. The resulting ‘scale’, when finally achieved, is so breathy and hissy as to have nothing to do with the sound a flute is capable of. Getting the upper octave repeats this process, only worse. Many people simply can’t get any upper octave notes other than maybe the vented D in their first day.
In music stores that have a display rack of Hall Crystal Flutes (Mars did, when they existed… ), you can watch the same phenomenon to some extent, though not so many people will just hang around fiddling with an instrument for any time in that setting. I did, though. A Hall Crystal D was actually my first flute.
Instruction can expedite this process some, of course, but how to make your first sound is somewhat tricky to explain.
The person who can pick up a flute, and within a minute or two, clearly sound a scale that sounds -anything- like what the flute is meant to sound like, is a very rare exception. The way you talk about how easy it is, and how flutes are as easy as whistles, well, I suspect you’re such an exception. But, having it be easy for you, does not make it any easier for anyone else.
It sounds like you are a “natural” flute player–you are blessed. May you use your gift well.
However, like Chris, I have heard any number of stories about people that take a LONG time to get anything approaching music out of their flutes. One friend has a house full of instruments and is an accomplished musician on recorders, and whistles, but never plays flute for the gathered crowd though he owns a very nice one.
I feel fortunate that I am able to get notes out of my new flute within a few days. However, I realize that I am an exception, not the rule. Even so, it is my many years of whistle playing (almost every day for over 10 years) that makes my first few days with the flute relatively productive. Years of working on breath control, concentration, and fingering do help, but the second octave still sounds like dying birds.
The originator of the thread is a novice to whistles and flutes, so unless he/she is also remarkably gifted, picking up and trying a flute will most likely be frustrating rather than enlightening.