I have learned a ton by lurking here, so thanks everyone for the free education.
I am not sure how to say how long I have been whistling, because I have stopped and started a bit, but I have gone through Ryan Dunsā nine week Introduction to the Tin Whistle course. It took me a bit longer than nine weeks. But I can play about 10 tunes, and I know the concepts of cuts and rolls (though I can see it will take a long time to really get them consistent!)
I was wondering if the wise whistlers of the board had any advice about how to practice at this stage. I have come this far by basically echoing back what I hear on the videos, or on my CDs. It is not that different from how I used to practice classical music, where the goal was āplay exactly this, the same every time.ā I know that is not how Irish music is supposed to be.
Mr. Dunsās intermediate videos are a bit different from the beginner ones. He shows us how he would play a tune, with variations and ornaments. That leaves me wondering what I should be working on. I have started trying to imitate his version of the Kesh Jig in intermediate lesson 1. That might be educational as an exercise, but Iām not sure how Iād ever get to the stage of ornamenting a different tune, without copying anyone. Then again, if I copy someone who is more experienced in the tradition, at least I am probably playing in a traditional style.
I betcha someone is going to say āBuy Mary Berginās Feadoga Stain and listen to it four thousand times.ā Right? I will, I promise, as soon as my cash flow situation eases up a little bit. But then, do I want to try and specifically imitate her take on a tune? (as if I couldā¦)
An excellent question - I am looking forward to the undoubtedly varied answers you will elicit.
What comes after beginner level? For my tuppence, I bet there are lots of ways to go, but I have not peeked over the parapet yet.
My guess is that beginner level is where you aspire to play like certain great exemplars. Next I guess you aspire to play like you. Then eventually, maybe, other people aspire to play like you. Or is that too trite?
I have not seen any exams, certificates, or merit badges. All the folk I have talked to are still trying to learn more and play better, even those that are so far ahead of me I feel humbled. So there is no end to learning. Maybe it is an attitude, or a frame of mind?
Carry on as you are, learning more tunes - concentrate on the well-known, stock ones. Pick up settings from the likes of Duns etc. complete with ornamentation. When you have a couple of dozen tunes fluent that way, even if slavishly replicating the source performance, try playing another stock tune or two you donāt yet know from notation (as you presumably can read dots). Remember not to treat the dots classical-wise as a strict script - play legato, find your breath-points, then just play. Iām pretty sure that you will almost involuntarily start to put in cuts, taps, & rolls fairly instinctively because many phrase shapes will be familiar from material you already know (how to articulate and ornament) and most basic places for cuts/taps are self-defined if you stick to playing legato at this stage and use no tongue or throat stops. You can get more analytical about it if you like and consciously search for and spot (even mark) appropriate locations for the graces, but that isnāt necessary or always helpful. Trust your ears and fingers to find the stylistically and technically appropriate essentials. Just donāt overdo it and try to chuck every possible thing in - though that can be an amusing and useful exercise in its own right - not to play musically, but to start to appreciate the possibilities and see where variation is possible.
Mostly I play highland bagpipes, which has a different culture than Irish session music, but I also play tin whistle, mostly from a Scottish celidh band perspective.
Anyway, what Iāve learned is that at some point, after youāve really internalized the style the embellishments are natural. If I learn a new melody on either pipes or whistle by ear (even if itās not a trad melody) I will automatically put in embellishments to hilight the phrasing. So how do you get from here to there? Iām sure there are many paths, but here are some things you might want to try.
First, learn more tunes. You can learn tunes from http://tradlessons.com/ where the tunes are demonstrated slower and up to speed. Even slower I need to slow them down more to learn them from the recording. I find learning by ear difficult.
Also, do some transcription. Learn how some whistle you like plays some tunes, note for note. This isnāt meant to imply that you should necessarily play the same way, but itās a great learning process. Slow tunes down to 25% or even less, and dwell on every tiny detail. Again, this isnāt something you should do with every tune, or even with a lot of them, but you can really hear a lot of phrasing and timing at 25% (or 12.5%) that you canāt hear at full speed. I use Audacity and turn down the sample rate, which maintains all the detail (where slow-down programs always add funky artifacts that mask the details)
Listen all the time. Listen to good recordings of whatever music you like until your friends and relations are sick of it, and then listen some more If you commute to work, you have a great opportunity to learn how the music is supposed to sound, just by listening. That wonāt make it so you can play it, but learning how it sounds is the first step.
As a final thought, proficiency on any musical instrument comes only with many hours of practice. Getting to the point where random people acquainted with any random style of music listen and feel you pretty much know what youāre doing probably takes about 1,000 hours of practice.
Normally I wouldnāt quote this much but this is sheer brilliance and wisdom learned only through life experience. Listen to all these guys who have been around this site for a few years. Theyāve taught me more than I could have ever learned on my own.
When I was learning, and like DrPhil, I am somewhere in the vast undefinable intermediate stage, it took me an entire year to learn five tunes. Let me define ālearnā because it ties really well into what Jemtheflute is stating. I could play the tunes note for note within a couple of months. And I could roughly emulate the audio/video recordings well enough to impress friends and not be embarrassed at sessions. But when I went strictly legato, forcing myself to learn all the articulations and ornamentations and where they fit best, I began to blossom. That took me about another six months, practicing for 30 - 60 minutes per day.
Now, I can pick up most tunes and ālearnā them within a few weeks. Iāve been playing for 2.5 years. I own about 15 tunes that Iām completely comfortable with (until I hear a new version from someone!!!). Maye Iām a slow learner but nothing feels better than to be able to try something new - mid tune - and just know that your fingers and breath will find the right place to be.
I think thatās what Jem is saying. Listen to him.
Iām probably somewhere around the bottom of the intermediate stage, if I had to guess.
I noticed a change in my playing between the songs I just learned and the ones I play all the time. The ones I know well, I start to play with the tune rather than simply playing the tune. Once playing it becomes second nature thereās room to add ornamentation or change things around a bit. Maybe throw in an improvised part in the middle. Nobody can complain if youāre only doing it when you practice, and if you mess up a few times it doesnāt matter. Rather than focusing on playing like a certain person, try paying attention to what you like about how they play. Try combining some of those things from different people and see what works out.
I think the most important part is to enjoy it though. If you have fun playing a certain way or making certain variations, do it.
I donāt mind if it takes me a while (more years of whistling? DARN) but I guess I was concerned that I might never break out of the play-exactly-what-I-hear model that I feel stuck in right now. From what Jemtheflute said, it sounds like it might be a phase that is educational to go through (exactly imitating).
As I think about why the variations and ācustomizingā of a tune seems intimidating, Iām coming up with two related reasons:
My fingers donāt want to do them, so it takes a lot of drilling and repetition to get smooth cuts or rolls into a phrase (or to play anything other than the exact notes I learned), and
I resist spending a lot of time drilling because if I made the variation up myself, I start to worry that maybe I am drilling ābadā habits or practicing a sound that is not traditional.
So a learning period where I try to exactly imitate good players might allow my fingers to learn what to do without me worrying that they are learning the wrong things. A couple of dozen tunes like Jemtheflute says, that ought to keep me busy for a while! Maybe after that the concept of āplaying withā a tune will actually seem like āplayā instead of like climbing Mt. Everest.
I am gonna copy and paste this thread and save it to my hard drive for future inspiration.
First, an introduction. Iāve been reading this board for a long time, but never subscribed until now. I play recorder and whistle, both in a variety of sizes, in baroque, modern and folk music.
Anyway: how to get better - isnāt that really the most important question faced by any musician, after how to make a living and look after your kids?
I think the most important thing is to never lose sight of the fact that music - within its various traditions - is a language. Itās articulate and meaningful. And what makes Mary Bergin, or Pablo Casals or Michala Petri great musicians isnāt their mastery of any technical skills - although they probably all spend (spent) some time every day practising scales and arpeggios, cuts and rolls. What makes them great is that they speak through their instrument - what they do makes sense in some way, however hard that is to to define.
So - apart from practicising rolls and cranns and scales etc. - what you should be asking yourself is: what is this music about? Of course itās mainly dance music, like most of the secular music of the baroque as well (minuets, sarabandes, sicilianas and so on). I hear a lot of Irish music on youtube played by very skilled amateurs which sounds really just like a competition to see how many notes they can play in a given space of time. But is it dance-like? Not at all. When I play a Handel Siciliana, say in the F major recorder sonata, I try to imagine the stately swirl of dresses and formal movements of the dancers - thatās what gives the music its pulse. Or - what gives it meaning. If you lose sight of that, you lose the sense of the piece. This is something like what a baroque musician would have called the āaffectā of the movement - its underlying emotion or mood. (BTW - you could do far worse than read Quantz on playing the flute, especially about the role of ornamentation in adagio movements and the affect).
Another thing you might do is to play slow airs. These are mostly transcribed songs or slow instrumentals. They will certainly get you deep into the matter of what a piece of music means - and expressing that is the heart of musicianship. Phrasing, the breath, expressive dynamics, slides and - of course, your rolls, cuts and cranns. But primarily phrasing - something that seems to be entirely absent from a lot of the youtube performances I mentioned previously.
Nice post, killthemessenger - and expressing superbly something I feel and sometimes talk about - the connection/comparability between ITM (and other European trad dance music) and the Baroque - all in some senses grew out of the pan-european mediaeval and renaissance dance musicā¦
To Jaime I would say, on the issue of having difficulty getting your fingers to do things, most especially the ITM finger-articulations/ornamentation, I bet that is an issue of relaxation. I canāt be sure without seeing you play (post a vid clip if you like), but Iād lay good odds youāre too tense. Iām sure I and others have written at length both here and in the Flute Forum about that issue - Iāve no time right now quickly to search up old threads, but use the Search facility on such terms as ārelaxed controlā. You may also find my whistle (mostly on low whistle, but everything is transferable to high) demo clips on YouTube (and the one in the current thread about The Sunset) useful.
There are also a bunch of clips on high whistles here - most not intended for teaching (they are mostly to illustrate review whistles - the ones marked āOā and āAā), but you may find watching them helpful. In fact, apply that thought to your other video sources - as well as learning tunes by ear and eye (mimicking fingering), analyse how each player holds their whistle and their hand posture and style of movement - then try to model your own on what you perceive to be best practice and what feels right for your hands.
Whatever you do, donāt forget that we call it PLAYING the whistle. Donāt worry about it so much that it starts to feel like work. Just enjoy yourself. Try to get to some sessions. Even if you canāt keep up, it will help you get a real feel for this type of music.
Try playing all sorts of different music-- Christmas carols, TV theme songs, folk songs, etc. Lots of great stuff out there.
I was going to say very similar things Jem and Kill. The most important thing I can say about learning an instrument, be it voice, whistle, flute, saxophone or the Peruvian Earccordion is that you will never come to a point where you have learned all you can learn. Musicianship is a lifelong process wherein you never become as good as you can be. So, best advice is donāt look too hard for the destination or you will miss the beauty of the journey. I know, I know. Perhaps a TAD romanticized.
WARNING: EXCESSIVE OVER-POETICISM AHEAD
So, in a nutshell, always drill your technique and get used to the idea that there will always be something you want to be able to do better. Thatās the nature of the beast. Definitely keep listening to and copying great players. Especially in something like Traditional Folk and such. The way people are playing it, by definition, is the way it should be played. But never forget that youāre a folk too. As you play, listen and imitate, there will come a time when you are comfortable enough with a tune and with the style, that youāll hear it a little differently perhaps, in your head. Your technique and your experience will allow you to have that instinct and vision for the heart of the music itself rather than just the imitation of the tune. I know it sounds kind of like Iām quoting from the Karate Kid or something, but itās true in a sense. Play it long enough, and it becomes something more than just fiddling around with a whistle for kicks, you know? And as has already been stated, if a tune grabs you, I mean really sticks with you, take the time to find out more about it. If itās a dance tune, then picture someone dancing to it. But not just dancing. Theyāve had a long day, their job was hard, or someone they love is ill, or a long lost friend is home at last. Whatever their situation, they came out to the pub and to make merry. To celebrate, or to forget! They just want to dance! It always helps me to know what Iām playing music about, and who itās for.
Just make sure you enjoy yourself and you keep it up!
So I went and tried to make a video of myself using the built-in web camera on my netbook computer, and discovered that the quality is too poor for anyone to probably tell anything.
I put 'em up here on my blog anyway, for what they are worth.
I think I should record myself more often, because it feels a bit like playing in front of someone: tempos a little faster than I intended, needing to breathe more often, all the things that come along with that āon-stageā feelingā¦ (except of course that I can delete the worst trainwrecks among the videos and try again )
This reminds me of the old joke about the man who was traveling as a tourist in London, and asked a local how to get to Royal Albert Hall, to which he gets the answer āwhy, through practice, sirā. It sounds like youāre well on your way when it comes to your mindset and your approach to it all. Like someone said, itās all a question of repetition and imitation until it becomes second nature. And when it starts to happen (it happens gradually in very small steps, but they seem like huge ones when they do happen), youāll know it.
Iām heading in a different direction. I play everyday for quite some time but I play the music thatās in my head. I tried playing other peoples tunes, but that was like work and quickly got boring, and that almost led to putting down the whistle. Iām happy with my progress as I find playing a lot has just naturally led to improvement. Often I listen to tunes and then just play my own version and let it go wherever it takes me. Feels very cathartic ! I think about the āoriginalā players who made this music up and I imagine them saying ā why the hell do you want to copy me, do your own thingā . Guess what Iām saying is this thing of playing note for note of someone elseās music doesnāt seem like too much fun. For me listening to otherās music and doing my own thing with it really puts a smile on my face. Iām only writing this as I see a number of posts from people who seem to be struggling to get it ārightā. I suspect getting it ārightā is at the expense of creativity. And yet I just asked for the dots/abcās to Little Wing. Got them, played with it a couple of times and then went back to what came out of me. Guess I think itās more important to hear the music that is inside of us than to be a copy of what has already been done.
Oh no no no, not so fast. Now you have to play it again and again until your brains fall out. I forgot to mention thatās part of the deal when you ask for the dots. The M in āMTGuruā stands for Mephistopheles.
Iām new to whistles, but have been playing music more or less competently (usually, to be honest, less) for most of my life, and mostly on my own since I left school about a million years ago. One of the things Iāve always enjoyed doing is playing along to music I enjoy, not always playing the melody - harmonising is I think really useful, especially when it takes you away from playing notes at the same time as the melody (Iām sure thereās a much better phrase for that). You end up forcing yourself into a better instinctive understanding of the music rather than trying to think it. It has to be said that this is easier with a fully-chromatic flute than a whistle where your tune choices can be slightly limited. But you do end up with a good feel for the music. I hope. It could be Iām just fooling myself.
Iāve only started using dots to find music I donāt already know, if that makes any sense. Playing from memory I find most useful, because it makes me understand the music properly, and I find it to be a portable thing to do - I only need an instrument and to be able to sing the tune. Iām not beyond beginner level, but Iām hoping this gets me there.
Iāve been thinking about my statement above and I need to add to it.
Imagine early 1900ās Ireland, a rural area, no electricity, no radio. The usual source of music was the Saturday evening get-together, village dance or session. Youāre a young aspiring musician, not quite up to playing with the band yet. So you listen and take home with you what you remember. Then you practice what you think you heard, or your interpretation. Eventually you get to sit in and play, but what comes out of you will probably be a little different. Similiar enough so they donāt throw you out but with a new twist. The Irish have traditionally valued personal interpretation of music, otherwise it gets stale. To hear the same tunes played in the same way, note for note, week after week, kills the anticipation of waiting to hear something ānewā. When I hear all the jigs and reels, I suspect many of them are offshoots of fewer earlier ones - maybe someone in another village playing their own version of what they heard when visiting another, and it eventually becoming a ānewā tune. So where am I going with this ? I fear āformalā training can dampen the spirit in music. I suspect the road less traveled - putting your own spin on what youāve taken in - by ear, will more likely keep the spirit alive in music, rather than getting locked in to a rigid ātradā that has ceased to blossom. Learning by being your own teacher.
Iām either on to something, or losing it - havenāt decided which yet!
But I can play about 10 tunes, and I know the concepts of cuts and rolls (though I can see it will take a long time to really get them consistent!)
