Would you consider this very up-tempo type of pipeing to be a modern innovation in the pipeing world and if so,where does its influence come from ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnhPivtfUKU
RORY
Not a piping clip. But just the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrjCGiL14I&nomobile=1
I’m no scholar on it, Rory, but it seems to me a sense of modern direction isn’t found in this pipering example as such, but more in the accompaniment. Take all that away: then would the question have occurred to you?
but it seems to me a sense of modern direction isn’t found in this pipering example as such
Wouldn’t you feel that whole linear approach with little attention to the internal rhythms of the tune is a fairly radical departure from older forms? Keenan was on that road but he seems to have pulled back a bit at some point. Moving Hearts certainly used that rhythmic approach too (and probably did a lot towards popularising it).
Thanks for the question. I agree that there are differences between then and now (and I admit I’m more of a fan of the modern ways, probably because that’s what I cut my teeth on), but aside from that nice bluesy wail at the beginning and a few other touches, the piping seems pretty straightforward to me, but maybe that’s what you’re pointing out. I just don’t hear any still-newer ground that I can put my finger on. Could you explain further what you mean by “linear approach” and “little attention to internal rhythms”? Perhaps my ear is unsubtle.
His treatment of The Garden Of Daisies has certainly provided delicious fodder for comment. 
I’m not either and dont know how to explain it in technical terms ,but the rhythm feels like something new to or even outside ITM.
When I first heard Barry Kerr play , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF--f7JxFPk
My first impression was that he was playing very much in the style of Davy Spillane . A stlye that was frowned upon by traditionalists when his first solo album came out. But maybe its getting more accepted these days.
RORY
Right, Kerr’s got a good deal more syncopation going on in his playing than McGoldrick in comparing those vids, I think. So maybe I wasn’t able to fully grasp the question and chalked it up more to the accompaniment.
If it’s the syncopated timings you’re talking about, I definitely think it’s those damned kids. 
The biggest separating factor to me between the new and the old style of melody playing is the use of swing (part of the internal rhythms of the tune that Mr. G was talking about?). The modern faster players often leave the swing out completely, even when playing slow. The music is just one long even tube where every note type has the same length regardless of its place in the rhythm grid of the tune, whereas in the “older style” the notes that go on the beat have a slightly longer value, and are accented more, creating a nice pulse or “jump” to the music. The notes between the pulses are a bit faster and on other instruments often played a little quieter. It took me a long time to even realize that the swing even exists in Irish trad, probably because of my background and the modern recordings I was listening to at first. Ever since finding the swing in this music I’ve been trying to learn to play with the right amount of it in different tunes.. Generally jigs get more than reels, hornpipes more than jigs etc.. makes the music more interesting and also affects the timing in your ornamentation.
So do you think the evolution of the “new style” corresponds at all to playing for a “sit-down” audience, rather than for dancing? I’m guessing that the internal rhythm of Willie Clancy’s music has a direct connection to what happened on the dance floor. Maybe I’m wrong, but probably few of us pipers (especially in the US) who have started playing within the last 15 years, have actually played at, or even been to, a dance where those internal rhythms are important. I think the rules are different if busking or playing for a “sit-down” audience.
Personally, I think the “new style” has been heavily influenced by the proliferation of judged contests and championships also. It’s the nature of such things that to win, you need to do something faster, flashier, etc. than the last guy or the past year. And not make a single “mistake” - Seamus Ennis’ records are full of squawks, squeaks and the occasional missed note but that is an integral part of the unique character and soul of his piping.
I contrast the OP’s link, where no real music is played for the first 60 seconds or more, with the picture in my mind of Johnny Doran at a Fair with á wee girl’ dancing on a laid down door panel trying to wrest a few hard earned pence from the crowd. Is this really progress?
Curmudgeonly,
Bob
Rory, I’m not convinced its’ tempo is quicker than any pipering I have ever heard. As far as it’s origins are concerned, well, I think we all have heard examples of speedy playing throughout the recorded history of Uilleann piping. All of this aside, it’s a lovely bit of playing. Mr. Gumby, what have you to say?
Seamus Ennis’ records are full of squawks, squeaks and the occasional missed note but that is an integral part of the unique character and soul of his piping
it’s those things that keep me piping..
Is it that drastic of a departure? I know there isn’t much in the way of recordings from the early 20th century, but Keenan, Spillane, even Finbarr Furey, seemed to play a bit like this, I think (haven’t listened to any of them in a long time). Also, there’s the whole “Armagh Piper’s Club” influence / style. The Vallelys (not just pipes), for instance. It seems like it’s a progression, not just something plucked out of the air. The end result does seem pretty audibly different from earlier / other styles, though.
Most of Ennis’ playing isn’t that full of squawks or missed notes though. Especially when he was younger, the playing is fast, flashy (in the sense that there’s lots of impressive stuff that’s going on) and without mistakes. A better example might be Clancy (although I don’t have much when he was younger), but with him it was because he was constantly trying different creative things, and the recordings are not some finished product, but just when he happened to be playing wherever. You make more mistakes when you’re trying to do more off the cuff.
As far as competitions, I think that there’s definitely a point beyond which they are more trouble than they’re worth, however, at least in the US where people are spread out so very far, they help to bring young players together and offer inspiration, community, friendships, and great learning opportunities. There are loads of very good, very traditional, and very humble musicians that have won these competitions and can play fast and flashy, but also play slow, subtle, intricate, fantastic music.
I don’t hear very many pipers trying to swing like Liam Walsh.
http://archive.org/details/LiamWalshTheSalamanca
I could listen to him all day.
I agree completely, and probably should have made this distinction with regard to Seamus Ennis’ recordings also. My favorite records of his are the ones made more extemporaneously. My comments about Ennis were not intended as criticism but rather as an opinion on what makes his music human and endearing.
It’s fast, too. Faster than McGoldrick I think.
I’m not a musical historian or anything… Looking back on this historical recording of Liam Walsh is interesting. However, who’s to say that musicians of the past where not equally influenced by the musical world around them. Obviously they didn’t have the internet like we do today, but this recording has a “swing” to it that was a very prevalent element to Ragtime, The Charleston, and Jazz, all of which were very popular in the 40 years leading up to this recording.
Maybe there were pipers back then also ruminating on the modern influences to piping.
Please educate me if i’m way off base with this. Very interesting discussion.
Liam Walsh had a dance band, he played the sax. I don’t think his approach to piping was influenced by that too much though.