A few beginner's questions

Whistle
1

Hello everyone.

As you may notice, I’m pretty new to the Forums, and so am I to the world of whistle playing.
I’ve always been a big fan of irish and celtic music, that’s why a couple of days ago I decided to buy myself a whistle.
After a few days of reading my way through some forums and sites I’ve decided to buy myself a “Clarke Sweetone D”, along with a Book and a CD.
I’ve heard that’s a pretty good whistle for beginners, to bad the whistle hasn’t been tweaked by Jerry Freeman - yet. (I plan to order one from TheWhistleShop when I get better at playing it).

Now to my questions…
I’ve been playing guitar for over a year now, and still haven’t reached a satisfying level. That’s why I’m a little frustrated with it. How long did you guys play whistle now, or how long do you think will it take to reach an acceptable level?
I really want to put some time in the whistle, learning sheet music and that stuff… It’s just that I don’t want to get frustrated again, just because the whistle is too hard to master (or at least, to play).

The second, and probably last question for now is…
I’m looking for shops, schools or players here in Switzerland. Did you maybe hear of anything like that? I’ve ordered my whistle from Germany, because the only swiss shop that had a few whistles asked abou 78 USD, and that price uncluded only a whistle! (Wasn’t even a good one)

So thanks for reading, and hope my english isn’t too bad.

2

I’ve been playing 3 years and when I reach an acceptable level I’ll post it here first.

But I’m a harsh self critic.

3

Amar, you want to answer this one?

As for me, I’ve been playing for nearly six years, and sometimes I wonder why I persist. Other times it sounds pretty good!

The trick is to enjoy what you’re doing and have patience with yourself. Don’t focus on written music if you’re primarily interested in traditional Irish. Focus on recordings and live sounds. If you have a CD slowdowner it helps a lot in figuring out exactly what the player is doing.

Nearly every whistle is available online…get comfortable with what you have now, and figure out what you want in the next whistle. There are a lot of suggestions here!

4

Well’ I guess that’s a problem we both have John. I think I’m a little to hard with myself too, even if I really enjoy what I do.

I guess that’s a good point to start with. I probably shouldn’t expect too much. I’l just start playing and we will see how far I get.
I’m already looking forward to it, hoping that my whistle arrives this week.

Thanks again.

5

What kind of “not to good” whistle are they charging 78 bucks for?!

6

Here’s what I tell my calculus students: If it were simple, that means that everyone would be doing it. Now that does NOT mean that it’s impossible. It’s not even TOO hard. Anyone with an average amount of intelligence and skill can learn calculus (or play the whistle). But it DOES mean that it takes time, determination, diligence and patience with yourself. Especially patience. So don’t get down on yourself about it. And it is definitely, definitely, worth it in the end. Trust me on that part.

Playing music also has another aspect that learning calculus really doesn’t have, and that is that it is a “developmental” process. No matter how good you get at it, there is still more you can do to get better. People who play at a very high level still work on getting their tunes even faster, their high notes even sweeter, and their ornaments even crisper. I have seen good players forget about that, and get discouraged with their abilities, even though they were excellent players. Be awre: don’t fall into that trap.

Basically, if you can find a way to enjoy the journey, instead of focusing on the goal, you’ll learn to love doing this, it won’t matter how good you are, and ironically, you’ll get a lot better a lot faster.

7

Record your playing for future refference. When you feel that you haven’t improved, go back and listen to how you started out. You will see how far you have come and not be frustrated that you can’t play like your favorite performer.

Realize that even great players are not satisfied with how they are doing. It’s just that the rest of us can’t see or hear what they want to improve.
Angelo

8

Acceptable is a word that can mean a lot of things. I took to the whistle immediately and enjoyed it from the beginning. I’ve been playing almost every day for over 10 years.

Acceptable for others to hear is another matter. Some never really feel comfortable with that. Others might feel at home at a session in after six months.

A lot depends on talent and practice time. A person can have ten years in, but if they rarely practice, what does that mean? Another person might practice an hour a day, take lessons, and go to session and be proficient in six months or a year.

For Irish Traditional music, listening is a key component of learning. There are those who practice and learn from sheet music, but what they perform is not ITM in spirit. The tunes are recognizable, but the subtle rhythms and accents are missing. If your musical goals are elsewhere, then sheet music and ABCs are fine.

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Fluti, thanks for that. It really makes sense, and I don’t think anyone could have said it better. The journey is what we should enjoy, and not the goal we reach. That’s probably one of the things I will keep in mind over the next years, and I guess I still have a lot of whistle-years before me.

Great Idea Angelo, I will track my progress from day 1… That’s probably the best way to notice how far you’ve got. Thanks for the idea!

dapolishunicyclist, well, I’m not quite sure what Whistle that is… Let me check… Okay, I just checked… And I’m pretty shocked. It’s a Sweetone, from Clarke!!!

Bill, you just made me think of something. I’m going to check the sheet music, notes, the ABC stuff and such… But just to learn to read the music, to get to know the melody from the sheets. Is that still wrong if I’m taking further inspirations from songs and live performances? The sheets and such are just like the theory for me… Once I know how the songs work, I’l start giving it my own touch. I really can’t immagine learning to play the whistle only by ear… Too many tones, and improvements to tell the difference how the song really sounds like. So I tought, at least for the start, sheets would be better.

Everything sounds a little confusing, because everyone plays the whistle with his own style. I guess that’s one of the instruments where there is no “right” way to play it. Just do it, right?
It may even sound a little weird, but all these comments really help to understand the “Way of the whistle” a little better.

I think the most difficult thing is that I have no point where to start at. Just my whistle, my book and the CD. Too bad we don’t have any sessions here in Switzerland, or anything like that. I feel like the only swiss whistle player around :boggle:

10

For those who can not or will not go, there is the BBC virtual session
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/sessions/
Unfortunately, there is no slow down function.

I’ll repeat myself, if you want to learn Irish Traditional Music the best way is to learn by ear to pick up the subtle rhythms and accents that sheet music can only approximate. A whistle can play many other types of music and sheet music is best reserved for those other types. That and some basics, but after that if ITM is your goal, best to start learning how to learn by ear and toss the sheet music. Once you pass beginner stage of ITM, sight reading sheet music is a mixed blessing.

11

The Link is great, thanks a lot for that.
And yeah, you’re probably right. I think I will try both methods, the listening and the reading one to see what feels better to me.

And thanks for the quick (and constructive) reply by the way. :slight_smile:

12

Many, many people have no sessions close to them. I think even the slow ones would be too advanced in any case, at least for me.

I understand your problem with being isolated—that has always been a problem for me too. I wonder if you have anyone around who is learning another instrument? Maybe guitar, anything really. If you could play along together, both learning, I think that would make it less lonely and discouraging. Someone learning guitar, maybe they would want to practice chords and could play backup (not something I usually like, but it might help in this case). Anyone play the piano? They might be willing to play chords.

You do have a good place to start, so just get started. You actually have what a whole lot of people have to start with. A whistle, a book and a CD. :laughing: And then you can come here and discuss your difficulties.

I think sheet music is fine to learn the skeleton of a tune, myself. If you can then listen to that same tune played on a CD that is the best thing.

If you are interested in Irish Traditional Music, you should make listening to good CD’s part of your practice session. Listening is not doing nothing or goofing off. Just get in the habit of dedicating part of your practice time to it. You don’t have to listen to a whole CD if you don’t have time. Just listen for how much time you do have. But do it everyday.

In my experience, no instrument is really easier than another. Some maybe you can get a recognizable tune on more quickly than others, but I think they all take the same amount of work and perseverance to actually make music. Frustration is really hard to deal with. The responses above gave some really good things to think about, for me too, on that topic.

13

I’ll repeat myself, if you want to learn Irish Traditional Music the best way is to learn by ear to pick up the subtle rhythms and accents that sheet music can only approximate. A whistle can play many other types of music and sheet music is best reserved for those other types

I don’t wish to restart an old debate about reading music versus learning by ear but that sort of specious bull**** always gets my goat. The best / quickest way to learn any instrument is to learn to read music. You can absorb the intricacies of timing etc as you go along.

Plus, say you are told that ‘The Onehorned Cow’ is a marvellous jig do you :-

A) Search for a recording or find someone who plays it, listen, try and work out the notes

or

B) just read the notes inO’Neills Irish Music Book and play the tune 30 seconds later

To be honest though you can only play ITM if you drink copious amounts of Guiness, play a pre-April, 1965 Generation and talk to the little people…you definately can’t play it when you come from California

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15

No need to get personal Mr. Liverpool man. ITM is not my cup of tea–I much prefer to write my own songs. I have no dog in this hunt. I agree with much of what you have to say. Once a person learns how to play a few proper jigs, reels, or hornpipes, sheet music or ABCs will help them learn a new one.

Some on this board have taken the sheet music and notation only route. The end result with much practice time are melodies that resemble the original tunes but would not pass muster at any session, even the less traditional, more open sessions. Some on this board have gone as far as to call them “Celtic inspired melodies.” Argue with them if you like, I am not a defender of the flame. I believe newbies need to hear the bit about learning by ear, so they don’t end up at that same point a few years down the road and wonder what the h*ll happened.

16

I’ve only been playing the whistle a little over a month, and I think I’m taking to it pretty well. I’ve been a bit musically inclined my whole life. I’m not particularly good at any instrument, just can play a few things on the piano and got fairly decent on the guitar (blues). Point is, I have a fair ear.

I started with a Sweetone D and a Feadog D. The Sweetone was noticeably easier to play in the beginning, but lately I’ve been playing the Feadog more often than the Sweetone.

My only training has been the online whistle training sites - Brother Steve’s, Whistletutor, Whistle Workshop, and a few others including these forums of course.

Anyway, to get to the point, within a couple of weeks I was familiar enough with the whistle to be able to pick out familiar tunes (lots of Christmas carols for some reason). Now, a few weeks further in, I’m focusing on trying to put more feeling and character into the music with breath control and ornamentation.

Mind you, I’m only playing tunes familiar to me, and have learned only a couple of slow airs (Down by Sally Gardens and Foggy Dew). I’m not even close to trying to learn a jig or reel yet. I’m not really focusing on ITM, but I’m trying to listen to it here and there.

Am I good? Of course not. However, within a month I was able to play several songs that are recognizable, and sound to the average person like I at least had a clue about playing the whistle.

When I got familar enough with the whistle that I was able to play fairly comfortably in both octaves without squeaking and squawking, that’s when it became enjoyable. That’s when I felt like I could make some semblance of music rather than just noise. This probably took less than a week on the Sweetone, but 3-4 weeks on the Feadog.

It’s going to be a long time I’m sure before I’m any good, if I even get “good”. But now that I’m past that noisy stage of awkwardness and unfamiliarity, I’m beginning to enjoy the journey.

Sorry for the long post - a bit bored this Saturday night. :slight_smile:

Jason

17

Nooooo! You’re NOT the only Swiss whistle player!

There’s another in Basel. And I’m sure he’d be here to help you, but he’s probably not gotten in from his Saturday evening yet.

He will be THRILLED to know you! Really a nice guy! The best! I’m sure he’ll be motoring on over to Zurich first thing in the morning to help you personally! Seriously. I mean that.

You can PM him . . . “Amar.” He might miss this thread, so you might want to just take the plunge and introduce yourself directly.

18

Thanks for the kind words, lamby! :slight_smile:

Hey dude!!
Nice to see another Swiss whistler, eventhough you’re from Zürich. hahaha… (just a little insider joke there, pay no attention everybody else… :smiley: )

Well, I started about 4 years ago and I still consider myself a beginner..but then again, I compare myself to Brian Finnegan and Mike McGoldrick…
but seriously, I believe there is no instrument around easier for a beginner, you can instantly play easy tunes without ever having done so before, like nursery rhymes and the like. You must take it from there, listen to a whole lot of good trad, or trad-like, music and just practice as often as it still remains fun and doesn’t become annoying. This way progress is inevitable.
And yes, there are sessions in Switzerland, and I’d be surprised if there weren’t any in Züri. Check out this site, it might help you:

http://www.irishfolk.ch/index.html

Stick around here, there is no better place where you will learn more about whistles! ok, and a whole lot of other stuff..
Feel free to contact me about any aspect, if I can help, I will.
Best, Amar.

19

Bill and Andy, I can understand both of you. That’s why I’m going to take a look at both sides… I guess everything has a good and a bad side.

Cynth, I like the idea of playing with someone else. My Father is actually playing Piano, and my sister learned to play Flute a while ago. So maybe I can get some help from both of them. And if I’m lucky too, I’l get the chance to visit a session around here - I’m checking that with amar right now.

Denny, thanks for the link. :wink:

Jason, long posts are always welcome :wink:
It’s good to see the progress you’ve made, I think that helps a lot too. And that’s probably what I’m going to say in a few weeks too. But that’s really not bad for a month of work, you really seem to enjoy what you’re doing!

Lamb, thanks… And I guess you were right, he wasn’t home yet :smiley:

Thanks for the site Amar, I’ve already sent you a PM, but I think you’ve seen that already. Looking forward to get to know some swiss players!

20

i just started playing about 2 months ago ican play about 10 songs by heart ive focused on the slow airs because like them and there easier to play but i also put time in on the faster stuff because i want to make sure i keed making headway the addition of a low whistle really upped the enjoyment [hoover low g] and wasnt that hard to adjust to i asked the same question a while ago and i think what your after is how long until you can make pleasing music with it ,and thats not yery long.the nice thing about whistles if you start to get bored you can always buy another one by the way where in switzerland are you i spent alot of time around andermatt