8-key Wilkes - sold

Irish Flute
21

My impression of Chris Wilkes is that he is an experienced, meticulous craftsman, and flute maker, straight as a die, very knowledgable and helpful. Anyone who implies otherwise should be ashamed of themselves. I’m more than pleased with my Wilkes keyless D flute by the way.

I could very well be mistaken but the head joint depicted on Jessie’s e-bay information seems to have different rings compared to the head joint of the D flute on Blackwood’s site at: http://blackwoodband.com/wilkesflutes

Prehaps it’s the lighting/or reflection, but the silver rings on the D flute on Blackwood’s site look like they have been engraved, especially on the last photo at the bottom? Were there 2 separate head joints for sale by Blackwood, one for D and another for Eb? Or was it one head joint and interchangable middle and end section?

22

Yes, I wasn’t the right person to mislead.

  1. To even create the connotation (intended or not) that Chris could have sold a repaired flute as new shows incredible poor judgment and quite frankly is totally irrelevant to the sale of the flute, and as numerous posters had indicated should not have been in the ad in the first place.

You may be right that it is not good information to post in an auction, but it IS the information that you gave me. You swore repeatedly that the flute was in the same condition as when you bought it new, and YOU said Chris must not have noticed when that one was the one you chose. YOU said you had thought the line was part of the grain of the wood. Chris has told me that the story YOU told me is not the truth, though he believes you forgot the truth. I cannot understand how someone can own a flute and not remember such a major repair.

Jessie was put on the defensive by Chris’s reported anger and other poster’s objection to the wording of her ad. As a result she has decided to shift blame (my opinion)

Your opinion is inaccurate. The truth was pointed out, your untruth came to light.

Jessie is accusing me of lying to Chris which I find amazing since she was not privy to our conversation.

Andrew came on here believing that you did not tell me that Chris sold you a repaired flute as new. You did tell me that Chris sold you a repaired flute as new. Do the math.

  1. Regarding time of purchase: Jessie claims in her ad that “This is a well-loved flute. It has stories of sessions and travels” she also says in her post that “though it was longer than a few weeks ago”. I shipped the flute on July 1, that makes it slightly over 7 weeks. Make your own judgment.

Uh, Sven, the comment about stories of sessions and travels was directed at the time it spent with you. It was a compliment to your musicianship, actually. Also, “a few” means three.

  1. I’ve never stated/implied/suggested/hinted that Chris sold me a repaired flute,

This is a blatant lie. I do have proof, so I’d stop repeating the untruth if I were you.

…the ad on ebay. It is filled with inaccuracies, mistatements and falsehoods.

Yes, yours.

I’ve never lied to Jessie, but provided the best information I could.

Chris believes you have amnesia and I believe you lied. I don’t know who is right.

I’ll just quote Jessie from her own ad and leave it at that: “I had the option of returning the flute, but I chose to keep it, because it plays like a dream, and I believe that the resulting dimensions (caused by the repaired crack) account for some of its magnificent playability.”

This is true.

Actually, the rings (and keys) have merely been cleaned. When I got the flute from Sven, it was FILTHY. It hadn’t been polished in over a decade and there was a multitude of green slime in all the keyways. The condition was an insult to such a flute. I spent 8 hours meticulously cleaning and hand-polishing the flute’s silver parts, and I adjusted the springs so they now work perfectly.

23

I can see that Jessie must be pretty wild about being sold a damaged flute when an intact one has been advertised. I am sure she is being quite honest in this business.
The possibility seems to have arisen that when " Blackwood" ( Are people ashamed of their own names ? ) bought the flute he was given a free spare headjoint which could well have been a repaired one. Could it be that Jessie has ended up with the spare, and the real joint is still around somewhere ?
I wonder if the best way to resolve this whole business is for Jessie to take " Blackwood " up on his kind offer to rescind the sale.

24

Thank you for your support, Andrew.

I actually bought the D flute and E flat body (for more than I am asking for the D flute, obviously) from Sven (the Eb foot also has an undisclosed but unrepaired hairline crack…while it is possible that the crack wasn’t there when Sven shipped it, I find that extremely unlikely), but I really want to keep the Eb body. Also, if nobody bids on this flute because of all that has happened, I would be totally ok with keeping it. It is a really special instrument. Because of all of the time I put into cleaning and adjusting it, I have developed a bond with it.

25

A good friend of mine called wanting the flute, so I ended the auction.

26

In my experience in disputes both sides usually feel genuinely aggrieved. Our interests always colour our memories.
It is nice to think there is sometimes a happy ending ( even if I get stuck in the middle ! At least in the Law one can at least get paid for worrying about other people’s problems and taking the flack ! )

27

I think you performed a service to the principals
in bringing the problem to our attention. Best

28

I hope that you were amused as I was to observe the righteous indignation of two parties who had both tried to screw from their respective purchasers a premium on the current price for a flute both damaged and made at the very outset of the maker’s career some 15 years ago.
Mr Wilkes well remembers how particularly well the flute in question played when new. Far better, in fact, than the Pratten model which replaced it. I doubt if he would be pleased to read ( If he were to burden himself with these columns ) that the flute now plays well because some unknown person has effected a successful repair on it rather than because of his skill as a maker !

29

Andrew, the premium is for the cleaning…Imagine the price if that person was to make a flute…
As far as playing better, it is because it has now a “large” hole embouchure and you probably dont need a pinched lip to play it, so, by definition, it plays
better…
The funny thing is that flute was bought for less than 860 quid, and now sells
for more than 2000, wow…
Nicolas

30

Wasn’t it more like £ 400

31

I did not add a premium. Market value for a keyed Wilkes flute is around $3500. The price of a new one is irrelevant (the cost when this flute was new is even more irrelevant - consider a basball card that sold for a penny new and now is worth a million dollars). According to Chris, his waiting list is almost nine years long. One can’t get a new one. The value is whatever people will pay. I would think Chris would feel the compliment of the value of his instruments. He certainly could charge more.

32

Buy low, sell high. It’s called Capitalism.

g

33

Um, I didn’t buy low, but whatever.

34

Buy high, sell higher! :slight_smile:

35

Ok, keep guessing all you want.

36

Unless you are suggesting that Mr Wilkes charges around $ 3500 for a run of the mill 8 key flute the market price you refer to must be the price inclusive of premium the purchaser of a new one sells it on for.
I have to admit that until now I didn’t know of such a market price.
I am certainly not being critical of the " Glauber School " of capitalism - especially if you are doing it to run a home for old flautists.

37

Hey! Glauber is a Socialist! :slight_smile:

I think “market price” means the average price people are paying for similar objects on eBay and other similar markets.

38

Andrew, Glauber is correct. Market price is defined by the population of buyers.

39

Somebody is missing the point here, for some reason.
To refer to the price which a buyer from the maker can realise if the instrument is sold on is back to the question of a premium being looked for ( or at least attained ) over the price the maker has realised.
If a purchaser is getting $ 3500 for an ordinary Wilkes flute he is enjoying a premium on what he or she has paid.
If anything like that is achieved for an old repaired flute then the aggregate premium enjoyed by, let us say for argument, two purchasers in turn then the premium is huge. Not of course necessarily divided between them.
The price however still represents a premium over the maker’s selling price.
Don’t worry about being a socialist, Glauber - no-one is perfect.

40

If I had a 1956 Chevrolet 2-door in mint condition, setting in my garage. If there anyone out there who thinks that I should ask the new selling price for this car? I don’t think so. Now, if it was a Ford, that would be a different story altogether. In the world of economics demand drives the price.