Hole size vs. stretch

[Katharine]

Sorry, everyone-- bear with me, please, as it's yet another Tipple-vs-Dixon debate. This is one I've not seen in going through the boards, though. Really it's more of a debate about hole size and stretch, if we're not getting into my personal situation.

I was about to post a "WTB" thread for a Tipple, but thought I might ask advice before I jump in. My hands aren't that big, and on top of that my fingers aren't very long, so stretch is a concern, and since I've seen plenty of posts from men who say they couldn't manage the stretch on a Tipple, you can see why I'm worried. (That's why I was going to buy a Tipple secondhand at first, so in case I couldn't manage it I wouldn't have spent too much and could pass it on.) According to the comparisons on Doug's site, the difference in stretch between his flute and a Dixon 3-piece isn't that much-- in fact, the Tipple is often more forgiving. The difference seems to be in hole size. Yet I've seen people say a Dixon is good for small hands.

Does hole size make that much of a difference to stretch? I was really hoping not to have to spend significantly more to get a Dixon (and I love the Tipples), but I also don't want a flute I can't manage (I haven't much interest in the offset holes, as I don't want to be unable to play inline flutes easily in future). (FWIW, my Becker low D whistle is what I'd consider a significant challenge even with piper's grip-- to the point that I can't really play it right yet; it's an exercise in "put fingers down slowly and carefully, blow, and hope for the best, adjust as required, hit lowest D sometimes." I've measured, and it has a longer stretch than the Tipple on all of the intervals, though some of the holes are smaller (esp. R2/B2).)

WWFFD (What Would the Flute Forum Do)? If anyone could explain to me hole distance vs. hole size, I'd appreciate it. To me it seems stretch is stretch, but there's obviously a difference that someone more experienced could explain to me... is it just that the smaller holes are easier to cover and thus allow more leeway in adjusting one's hand position to reach all the holes?

[jim stone]

Of the two I judge the Dixon is better for small hands (I've played both), but I must confess that I don't like the Dixon. If I may make a suggestion, a lot of people waste money on less expensive flutes that aren't for them. You might consider the Casey Burns folk flute, also consult with Casey personally about hand-size issues.

Also knowing Doug he will give you good advice about his flute, discuss ergonomics, and probably send you a new one--returnable if it isn't for you. You might contact him.

[Feadoggie]

I own a Tipple (owned two actually) and the Dixon three piece delrin (three of those). The Dixon is easier on the finger stretch and for covering the holes. The newer Tipple is easier to play embouchure wise IMO.

I have the Dixons as flutes to put in the hands of interrested beginners until they get their own flutes. The Dixon has a taperd bore and smallish holes. That makes the stretch about as easy as it can get. The outside diameter of the body of the Dixon is smaller than the Tipple too. While that may not seem like anything to consider at first it may actually make the Dixon easier for smaller hands to hold in general. The blow hole is smallish too (at least on mine) and it takes a focused jet to get a good tone. That can take a while to develop. YMMV. But once you can play the Dixon you can play any Irish style flute out there. So I feel it is a good tool to start off with. The Dixon is a quieter flute compared to many other starter flutes but once you develop the focus it is loud enough for most situations. And it does look like other conical simple system flutes.

The Tipple with the newer blow hole, a lip plate and wedge is a good starter flute for getting a tone right away IMO. It has a nice strong tone. The holes are not terribly big IMO but since it is a cylindrical tube the holes are a bit more of a stretch. If you play flat fingered with a piper style grip the stretch is fairly easy to manage and covering the holes is a bit easier. But I know that is all relative to our God given physical assets. If the Becker low D is a challenge for you then I would guess that the Tipple would be only slightly less of a challenge owing to the fact that with a three piece Tipple flute you could rotate the right and left hands sections a bit to help. The Tipple doesn't quite look like a conical flute but most people could care less about that.

And if you are considering "ergonomic" hole layouts remember they are just as much "one size fits all" as in-line holes. It's generally easier to use a piper style grip and keep the holes in-line. Many grips do not get along with "ergonomic" hole layouts.

Both the Dixon or the Tipple would be a good first step. Not knowing you it is not simple to advise which would be best for you. Either could work depending on how you respond to things. Buy a new flute to get the latest features in either case. I'd probably favor the Dixon.

But while you are considering first flutes you might consider a couple others too. The Copley three piece delrin is a very good flute and a bargain to boot. It's not a flute you will out grow quickly. It is not much more expensive than a Dixon but I know that is a relative consideration.

Gary Somers is also making very nice flutes at a great price. They are a lot of flute for the money too.

And of course there are others to consider as well. Their supporters will be along shortly.

Hope that helps some.

Feadoggie

[Katharine]

Thanks, guys. New is definitely not in the budget... hence why even a secondhand Dixon would be more of a stretch (no pun intended). I think I'll go with my first inclination and start with a Tipple and see if I can make it work, and go from there.

(And a big thank-you for all the wisdom shared here over the years-- I've been going back through the forum over the past couple months and am about 85 pages in and have learned a lot so far.)

[Berti66]

I have owned and played both.
am a woman with average hands and I found the tipple hand wise harder to hold/ cover holes than the dixon.

maybe a forum member has a dixon three piece for sale.
its nice to have and even to keep for travel etc.
or save up a bit longer … its not that expensive…..you're not in a hurry, are you?

[Julia Delaney]

$275 for a Shannon. Great sound. Easy to blow.
Easy reach so small hands are not a problem.
Easy resale if it doesn't suit.

That said, Tipple flutes are great for what they are.

[Jayhawk]

The Dixon three piece was my first conical flute, and I agree with all Feadogie said.

However, if I had to pick a first flute today, it would be Walt Sweet's shannon with inline holes. Julia Delaney is right on the money suggesting one.

The Tipple hurt my hands with the stretch when I played one. but kt was a nice sounding and playing flute.

Fwiw, I have small hands for a guy...same size as my wife.

You could always see if could trade the low whistle and some cash for a board members used flute.

Eric