My Susato Four-Key Low D

[Tim2723]

I've just received my new Susato low D Kildare whistle with the addition of four of the company's Comfort Keys. I had the keys placed on 1,3,4 and 6. Arthritis and nerve damage from diabetes had taken away my ability to play the low whistles and keyless flute. With these keys in place I can play the big whistle with the same finger spread as a standard high D.

The instrument is typical Susato quality which has been described here over and over. The keys are not conventional looking at all but are rectangular pads on post mounts. They work as promised and seal very tightly. They are surprisingly quite responsive. Of course, the keys limit the instrument in all the ways one would expect; slides and half-hole techniques are done for. But life is a compromise.

I don't advocate keyed instruments for those who can use a standard whistle since one sacrifices a lot of the instrument's characteristics and charm, but for those like me who would otherwise loose a big portion of their musical lives these keys are a Godsend.

[Jayhawk]

Very, very cool! I'd love to see pics! Anything that keeps you playing is a great thing...so forget about the compromises and just have fun.

Eric

[Tim2723]

Thanks. I can't post pictures but you can see the keys on the Susato website. They offer them as an option on all their low whistles. They can put keys on any vent. I'm thinking that I may eventually send it back to have the other two keys added for a fully keyed instrument. I was just pleasantly surprised at how well they work even though they do limit the instrument somewhat.

[Angel Shadowsong]

I am a fan of their whistles too, for their mellow tone and woody whistle sound color and the intonation is on-spot except on the low ones.

I purchased the Low D with keys before but the sound of the hole with the keys is somehow cloudy at least in my perception versus the neighbor notes without the keys

Not to mention, keys somehow flatten the note versus removing the keys.

How do you find the intonation?
I was wondering if it is my ear perception that is just paranoid.


But if it helps you stay with music, compromises are made.

I pray your hands will be healed. I know how hard it feels if your instrument is somehow taken from you.


Regards,

Angel

[Tim2723]

I thought about that cloudy sound at first also. Now that I have a few hours on it, it seems that the pads are breaking in and that problem is a lot less.

I too have heard that keys can change the tuning, but on my whistle the keys rest as high off the vent as my fingers normally would so I haven't noticed any problem yet. Maybe that's something they've addressed? Perhaps if I do add the extra two keys every vent will be the same and there will be no discernible variations.

I don't really notice any major issues with intonation. I have a lot of whistles that all seem to be a little different that way. A big test will come in a couple of hours when I take the instrument on stage. Sometimes playing through a microphone shows up problems that I don't otherwise hear. I've also experienced that some whistles need small changes in technique to make them play their best, so I may have to adapt as well. To be honest, most of the problems I've blamed on my instruments have really been me!

And thanks for the kind thoughts!

[MTGuru]

Very interesting, Tim. The Susato keys option has been around for a while, and there's been some discussion here. But I don't recall offhand a detailed commentary by someone who is actually using them. I look forward to your ongoing impressions.

[Tim2723]

Gee MT, do you mean that people have posted opinions without actual experience? I thought that never happened.

[Jayhawk]

Gee MT, do you mean that people have posted opinions without actual experience? I thought that never happened.

LOL! Well done keys shouldn't cause problems with proper venting...otherwise that whole Boehm contraption wouldn't be so popular.

Eric

[Angel Shadowsong]

Gee,

Well I have 2 keys as my first Low D and you have 4. It is possible that most notes are cloudy so it is not that noticeble and you treated it as normal just a random thought though.

It is also possible that they have changed the key elevation.

I really find it bothersome specially to the high E note (B3 Key making it cloudy)
Also the T3 Key.

I frequently notice it specially when you do an ascending or decending 4 notes.

Low octave seems negligible, but the high octave bothered me a lot specially on mics.

Other bandmates somehow does not notice that. But my head is like a sensor and it freaks me out when I notice the change in dynamics.

Anyhow, maybe it is just me.



Edited for some spelling lapses.

[Tim2723]

The effect I noticed at first seems to have gone away. Perhaps I have gotten used to it. Perhaps I am unconsciously compensating for it somehow. Perhaps it was never really there to begin with. When my bandmate played it I couldn't hear anything wrong so perhaps it happens under the ear. It's very difficult to describe these effects. Talking about music is like dancing about architecture.

The instrument amplified very easily and was well received, except for a couple of flubbed notes on my part. I also didn't realize how much the very lightweight construction would help me as well. It's very easy to hold for someone whose arms are weakened.

So far the only thing I find more difficult is that the natural requires 0XXX00 rather than my preferred 0XX000. That's not uncommon or a problem, but we all have our preferences and I find it bothersome until I get used to a whistle. I certainly don't consider it a problem compared to the benefits I've enjoyed.

I also removed the thumb rest. I find those annoying, but that is just another personal preference.

I had no problem tuning but had the slide fully closed. I think I'll take a millimeter or so off the tenon to increase in-travel and allow me to go a little sharp when needed. That's something I've done to nearly every whistle I've ever owned, so again it's probably a personal quirk rather than an issue with the instrument.

[pancelticpiper]

I really like how Susato thinks outside the box and comes up with interesting solutions for a low price.

Their keys are a perfect example. As said above they don't look like conventional woodwind keys but they work perfectly.

Another thing is using a bent/angled neck. I have a Susato keyless angled-neck Low C and it's a fine whistle, very expressive. Due to the angled neck you don't have a long reach.

I also have an angled-neck Susato keyless Low D and the reach is very short.

These things bring Low D whistles into the hands of people who wouldn't otherwise be able to play them.

Now that Susato has come up with the means of making big whistles reachable, the next logical step (it seems to me) is to start making really big whistles! Low A and Low G whistles that anyone can play. What about a contrabass D? They could do it.

PS about C natural: for some reason the "C# hole" (actually B natural) on my big Susato Low C was made far too big so that all of the usual fingerings for C natural (actually B flat) are way too sharp. I have that hole over half-covered in tape.
It's the most curious thing about Susatos. I have Susatos in every chromatic low key D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A and there's no consistency as to the tuning of the scale. But Susatos are made of that great plastic that's easy to carve and saw and nearly every one of mine has been carved, and a couple of them sawn. They're all bang-on now.

[Tim2723]

Concerning the pitch shading caused by keyworks, Mr. Kelischeck mentioned that his company has learned to make adjustments to avoid the issue. I'm not exactly sure what he means by that, but it suggests that he is well aware that a key too close to the tone hole will cause tuning variations and that they have made a correction. We suspected something like that in the conversation above. He also mentioned that the problem is easily remedied by an adjustment to the key mechanism. He did not go into detail on this except to say that the key must be a certain height from the vent hole as one would expect. He did not say that this was something to be done at home, so I suggest that anyone considering making adjustments to their keys would do well to contact the manufacturer first.

As pure speculation on my part, and having nothing to do with comments by the manufacturer, I'm given to wonder if there might be players who rest their fingers on the open keys enough to cause pitch shading. I also wonder about the possibility of players attempting to make adjustments to the keys and unwittingly causing themselves some problem.

Eric's comment about Boehm flutes caused me to consider that perhaps the Boehm design takes pitch shading into account and that the instrument is constructed from the start to compensate for it. Since the Susuato whistles begin life as keyless instruments, perhaps they are affected by pitch shading which must be corrected 'downstream' as it were.

I have no significant understanding of the physics of flutes, so these are just random thoughts on my part.

[pancelticpiper]

I thought sure that Boehm had discussed the flattening effect of having an open key over a hole, and the need to compensate for it by making the hole a bit larger and a bit higher up the tube, but I just looked though his book and I can't find it.

I would think if the hole is large enough and the key adjusted high enough the effect would be minimal.

Just as with the Boehm flute, these Susato keys allow holes which are ordinarly rather out of position on a Low D, especially E, be put their "acoustically correct" position with a large hole so as to have an extremely even scale as regards volume and timbre.

Renaissance and Baroque "bass" flutes were made sometimes with only two open holes, for the middle finger of each hand (the largest holes, and most correctly-placed holes, on keyless whistles and flutes) while the index and ring fingers of each hand operated keys. Doing this, really big whistles could be made with easy finger-stretches.

[Tim2723]

Yes, that's the arrangement I've chosen for this whistle as well: open holes for the middle fingers of each hand. I took the idea from my bass recorder which itself is a very large hunk of pipe with holes too far apart for even the largest hands.

EDIT: Panceltic Piper's comment about his angled-neck instrument prompted me to contact Susato to see if they could provide an angled head joint for my whistle. The combination of an angled head and six keys might well provide the most ergonomic low whistle ever conceived.