tunes with parts in different keys

[john]

I've heard people refer to tunes as starting in say 'g' then moving to 'a' minor etc. as though the key has changed and different parts of the tune are in different keys

I've always thought that this was incorrect, that one part might be based on a chord that belongs to another key, but that the key has not changed

there's an infinite number of examples but one might be 'the Dublin reel' that's in 'd' but has a middle part 'in' 'a', or say 'the curragh races' that is in 'a' minor but has a second part that seems to suggest a 'c' chord

just looking to learn the correct terminology

thanks

[Nanohedron]

just looking to learn the correct terminology

I guess we're going to have to define "correct" here, then. Honestly, to me it depends on who you're talking to. If you're guiding an accompanist so as to back you up there's nothing wrong with saying a tune changes keys, because that is functionally what it does. However, when talking to a classically trained musician, they may see it differently in terms of the bigger picture - and as I recall, tend to do. Nothing wrong with that either, but a rigorous academic rectitude may be confusing to the likes of me in certain cases.

I think good communication should come first whether we come from college or the street.

[MTGuru]

just looking to learn the correct terminology

Modulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_(music)

If you play a tune part in isolation and it has a strongly identifiable tonal center, then it's perfectly reasonable to say that that tune part is in that key or mode. If that key/mode differs from that of other parts, then it's perfectly reasonable to say that the tune as a whole is multikeyed or multimodal.

This follows naturally from recognizing the structural reality of tune parts. And note that whether there's a change of written key signature in transcribed form is irrelevant.

There's nothing magical or sacred about the starting key of a tune. There are AB tunes that are sometimes played in either order, AB or BA. If the tonal center of each part is different, then which is the key of the tune and which is the modulation? You might be able to answer that if you analyze the implied cadences or "turnarounds" between the parts. But it's still a multikeyed tune.

[Nanohedron]

Ah, yes: "modulate". I'd forgotten that.

[highland-piper]

When there's a tune that has C# in the A part and C natural in the B part and uses them both then the tune is probably in two keys.

[Nanohedron]

When there's a tune that has C# in the A part and C natural in the B part and uses them both then the tune is probably in two keys.

If we're talking about tunes like Banish Misfortune or The Job of Journeywork, that's what I call D Mixolaneous.

[stanton135]

That's what I call D Mixolaneous.

Thanks Nano--I knew there must have been a word for that.

[CHasR]

just looking to learn the correct terminology

Modulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_(music)

If you play a tune part in isolation and it has a strongly identifiable tonal center, then it's perfectly reasonable to say that that tune part is in that key or mode. If that key/mode differs from that of other parts, then it's perfectly reasonable to say that the tune as a whole is multikeyed or multimodal.

I would add for clarity's sake ( and because im a total nerd about this sort of thing) that a strong tonality is established and reinforced by repeated masculine cadences on that tonal center.
And, to refine MTGuru's terminology just a teeny bit more, polymodality is strictly a seperate kettle of fish than polytonality. A melody can be simultaneously both, and/or neither.

Any counterarguments shall be dealt with by my hobbit.

[MTGuru]

Any counterarguments shall be dealt with by my hobbit.

Fie, sirrah! My Nazgûl shall stand thy Hobbit on the field of ... of ... uh ... oh, never mind.

[Podge]

In a lot of cases the key being changed to is the relative minor or major of the preceding part, e.g. G major to E minor (Out on the Ocean), A minor to C Major (The Gravel Walks), B minor to D major (The Otters Holt).

Both scales have the same key signatures - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_key

Incidentally, D Mixolydian or D Modal (Queen of the Rushes) can be described as a D scale with a flattened 7th (d e f# g a b c d) and this makes it the same as the G scale (g a b c d e f# g). The B part of this tune may seem to change key as the first chord is C but is actually all in the same key (D Mix or D Modal).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixolydian_mode

[CHasR]

yeah,,,, i mean......a lot of the time dipping into plagal territory (G maj > D dorian), or even relative minor (G maj > E aeolian) dosent hold up under strict analysis as a *true* modulation to a 'foreign' tonality. It s kinda nice to impart that kind of complexity to (lack of better term) 'traditional 'musics, but unless its one of those PBS style huge production arrangements that go a step up for the final verse for the sake of verismo, we;re 9x out of 10 not talking 'modulation' proper here. Including stuff like pivot chords, harmonic direction, careful root progressions, all sort of make the modulation...shall we say...worthwhile(??). & All of this despite what wiki says.
Personally, Ive always thought sudden abrupt shifts into the paralell minor (Gmaj > Gmin) to be far more interesting and exciting, but thats (afaik) sort of rare in ITM.

If anyone has an ex, I'd LOVE to see an ITM tune with that kind of shift. But not if its faux ITM, or something by Howard Shore.

[PJ]

The Quebec traditional repertoire has many tunes that change key from one part to the next.

A friend calls one of these tunes the God Damn Reel": the first part is in G major and the second is in D major.

I can't say that I like the effect of changing keys in the middle of a tune. It certainly wakes the listener up, but not necessarily in a good way.

[rorybbellows]

Personally I think its not good to over analyse tradition music ,it somehow flies in the face of the spirit of the music. Listen to it and play it, dont concern yourself with what mode or key its in ,play and enjoy.

RORY

[bensdad]

"sudden abrupt shifts into the paralell minor"

How about sudden abrupt shifts into the parallel major, as in the third part of Ed Reavey's House of Hammill.

[highland-piper]

Both scales have the same key signatures -

My wife, the music major in the family, calls everything with two sharps "D".

As a violinist, the key signature is important, but the actual key is really irrelevant. It's kind of confusing when, as a guitarist, I'm trying to figure out chords...

"It's in D"

"hmmm.. are you sure it isn't b-minor?"

"No, it has two sharps."

"So does B minor."

"Whatever."