Goldie / Overton clogging problem (and solution)

[AngelicBeaver]

I'm considering trying it. I love my new whistles, but they do clog. No whistle is allowed to be perfect, I guess. I'm a little worried about putting something in the windway. If waxy buildup messes up my whistle, I'm not sure how to get it out again.

Any thoughts?

[Mikethebook]

As a beginner, I bought a soft blowing Goldie about a year ago (a low D) and for months had problems with clogging. I tried everything including waxing it but that didn't help. Then I spoke to Colin and for months now, it has never clogged on me. It's fine. This is what he suggested I do:

The method uses toothpaste (not the gritty sort) and a filed down dampened wooden lollipop stick (not sure what you call them in the US - popsicle?) - and make sure it goes into the windway easily so it won't break off and get stuck - I guess you could use a thin plastic card too but the wood rends to pick up dirt in the grain. Work toothpaste into the windway and using the dampened stick "polish" the inside of the windway with it. Then, using a cotton bud with toothpaste on it, polish the bevel and also the wall of the block below it to prevent the build up on water on the bevel. Then rinse the whistle out with cold water.

It has worked wonders for me.

[cai-shao-yang]

good idea! i think i will try this! but not in goldie~i haven't goldie~

[retired]

Gel type toothpaste ?

[Steve Bliven]

With or without Fluoride?

Best wishes.

Steve

[Mikethebook]

Not the gel, normal white paste but not the stuff that feels gritty between your fingers. Fluoride? I don't supposed it matters.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Whatever you do, DO NOT use dental floss or wax! Wax repels water, meaning when water touches way the water forms little balls which choke off the sound from your whistle. Dish soap is the best thing to use because it makes the water spread out in thin sheets which don't disrupt the airflow so much.

[Steve Bliven]

Whatever you do, DO NOT use dental floss or wax!

If you search the forum on "floss" you'll find a significant number of people who have used this technique and reported great success.

Best wishes.

Steve

[Mikethebook]

Toothpaste contains the same surfactant as washing up liquid which is why it works but I've found it much more efficient and longer-lasting than washing-up liquid or Anticondens. Colin, I believe, uses both before selling a whistle, toothpaste to clean inside the windway, and then a wash in soapy water.

[brewerpaul]

Another thing that really helps with those heavy metal whistles is to warm up the head well before playing. Cold metal plus warm moist breath=condensation. At gigs, I take all sharp metal objects out of my pocket and stick my Goldie A whistle's head in there as we set up and get ready to play. Works really well.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Whatever you do, DO NOT use dental floss or wax!

If you search the forum on "floss" you'll find a significant number of people who have used this technique and reported great success.

Best wishes.

Steve

Wax will prevent condensation for dry-blowers, but if you are a wet blower or happen to accidentally let a little salive into your whistle when tonguing, the wax will exacerbate the problem while dish soap mitigates it. There's simply no downside to using soap over wax, and if you're in the middle of a gig I think soap would cover all your bases. Just my opinion.

[Steve Bliven]

There's simply no downside to using soap over wax, and if you're in the middle of a gig I think soap would cover all your bases. Just my opinion.

Personally I prefer the taste of wax over soap.

However, none of my whistles (excepting the MK Low D) have plastic heads and so condensation is not much of an issue. I just have relied on the experience and opinions of others who have reported success with waxed dental floss.

Best wishes

Steve

[bogman]

I use plastic keycards or bankcards cut to strips, just slightly narrower than the windway, and warm water with washing up liquid and that works fine. The narrower the windway the more care you need to take to keep it clean. The most important thing in stopping clogging is not any fancy methods, it's simply practise and getting your blowing technique right. If the windway on a Goldie clogs it's not the whistles fault it's the players.

[MTGuru]

it's simply practise and getting your blowing technique right. If the windway on a Goldie clogs it's not the whistles fault it's the players.

You know ... and I'm not picking on you, bogman ... I've seen that statement more than once here on the board. Perhaps as many times as I've seen reports from players at various levels that they've experienced clogging problems with their Goldies.

Now I'm a pretty good and experienced player myself, with around 100 whistles and such in my arsenal. Which I've played in a pretty wide range of circumstances and ambient conditions. And of all those whistles I have only two that I've ever experienced significant clogging problems with: my two Goldies, high and low D (the latter in particular). And by "significant" I mean: unrecoverable in the course of a performance without actually stopping the performance.

I've read the statement over the years and thought: Well, the problem could be me. Maybe there's an embouchure or blowing technique I've overlooked, or some kind of care. So I've cleaned the windways and fipple areas meticulously (I also use cut up credit cards). I've applied Duponol, dish detergent, waxed dental floss. I've warmed the instruments thoroughly before playing. I've experimented with different blowing angles, pressures, and techniques. And within around 10 seconds of starting to play, the tone begins to veil over and become cloudy - the sure sign of a moisture clog. Indeed, blowing it out clears it right up - for another 10 seconds. Then the cycle repeats itself.

I'm not particularly a "wet blower". Certainly no saliva. And my cheap transparent recorders (don't ask!) let me see that my condensation is no more than average. So I'm pretty sure that the relative humidity of my exhaled breath is close to the normal human 95% or so.

But I have noticed this: When my Goldie begins to clog, the beads of moisture that form in the windway and near the windway exit always tend to be located at the same spots. And normal blowing doesn't dislodge them, but adds more condensation to those spots.

Which brings me to Mikethebook's above post about the toothpaste.

If Colin himself suggests that the toothpaste treatment - windway polishing - may cure clogging, that implies that there may in fact be a problem with the inside surfaces of the windway. I don't know how else to interpret that. And if so, no amount of telling myself that "it's the player's fault" will cure it.

It happens that my Goldies are my only two whistles with all-metal windways (OK, an Impempe also). And though I'm no physicist, I've noticed that water droplets can cling to the crannies of a textured (machined) metal surface more tenaciously than to a smooth plastic surface. So it makes sense that small imperfections in the windway, block, and bevel texture may trap droplets and increase clogging, and polishing them out may reduce clogging. Especially on small windway (easy blower?) Goldies like mine.

If as Mikethebook says, Colin himself uses the toothpaste as part of his final voicing and preparation, then I can imagine that the degree of polishing is more an art than a science. And some of the whistles may really require additional polishing to bring them up to full playability without clogging under real world conditions.

So I'll definitely try the toothpaste and report back. There are settings when I enjoy the unique Goldie sound and feel, so I'm not ready to give up on them. But, unfortunately, I do know others who have.

[Mikethebook]

Let me expand on my experience of Goldie's low Ds, which may throw some more light on the issue. I began playing whistle about eighteen months ago with a Goldie low D, later buying a big hole version. Initially, though being a wet blower (like so many beginners – I'm not as dry as I would like to be even now), I had no clogging issues with either provided I warmed the head up first. But I rather "mothered" the first whistle, washing it out regularly and gradually the problems started just as MTGuru describes with beads of water collecting in the same places in the windway, but I also had water collecting on the bevel. I tried everything: anticondens, soaps, floss etc but any help from them was shortlasting. A friend who bought one the same time as me was experiencing the same problems and eventually gave up and sold his. But the Goldie was exactly the sound I wanted and I recognised that hundreds of professionals play them so refused to give up. A conversation with Colin turned me on the toothpaste treatment and he told me that the wet lollipop stick used with it would remove all traces of dirt, and that water droplets form around the tiniest of particles. I may be wrong but don't actually believe there are imperfections in the metal of the windway. My first try with the toothpaste stopped droplets forming in the windway but water still gathered on the bevel, substantially so, affecting the tone. It wasn't until I polished both bevel and the block wall beneath it that the problem was completely solved for me. I haven't had problems for months.

The Big O I didn't play much, but then I didn't wash it out either and it never caused me difficulties. So my conclusion is that Colin's initial treament is good for a length of time depending on how often you wash the whistle out and remove the surfactant coating left by the toothpaste. But I also wonder about the introduction of tiny particles into the windway. How many people play their Goldies at a session where they are also eating. I'm not at that level of ability yet to play with others and only play at home. Right now, I NEVER play any whistle without brushing my teeth and washing my mouth out thoroughly.

That's been my history with the Goldie low D and I'm glad I've persevered with it. I LOVE it.