Transposing

Windjammer · Post by **Windjammer** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:05 pm

I was handed a piece of music for pennywhistle to play with an orchestra this weekend. It is in the key of D Flat Major (5 flats)and is written as a concert "C" flute part. This is the problem...what whistle should I use and transpose to what new key? The closest I could figue is to play 1/2 step lower than written on an E Flat whistle and simply half-hole for the F. Does anyone have any suggestions. The half-holing will be akward because there are many measures with multiple 16th notes.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:18 pm

That's what I would suggest. You could also transpose up a fourth to Gmajor (one sharp), but then you'd need an Ab-whistle to play it on, and I've never seen one of those. If you have one, though, I'm interested.

CDon · Post by **CDon** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:30 pm

On 2003-01-21 17:05, Windjammer wrote:
I was handed a piece of music for pennywhistle to play with an orchestra this weekend. It is in the key of D Flat Major (5 flats)and is written as a concert "C" flute part. This is the problem...what whistle should I use and transpose to what new key? The closest I could figue is to play 1/2 step lower than written on an E Flat whistle and simply half-hole for the F. Does anyone have any suggestions. The half-holing will be akward because there are many measures with multiple 16th notes.

If the score is truly written as a concert C part, then you should play it on a key of C whistle. The transposition has already been taken care of by the arranger who wrote the key of C flute part.

HDSarah · Post by **HDSarah** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:39 pm

I'm confused. If you are going to play it with an orchestra, then don't you have to produce sounds that are actually in the key that they are playing? Or is the whole group willing and able to change key for the whistle?

Also, if it's in D flat major, written as a C-flute part, doesn't that mean that it really IS in the key of D flat major? What I mean is, isn't C-flute music like piano music, in that the note printed on the page is the actual note that sounds, and isn't automatically transposed into another key?

Finally, if it IS okay to change the actual key, why couldn't you go half a step UP from D flat major and play it on an ordinary D whistle in D major?

Sarah
who panics at the thought of 5 flats!

selkie · Post by **selkie** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:49 pm

If it's in C flute part then it should be in the key of C as far as I can remember my tutor telling me when I panicked over a piece of music.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:50 pm

On 2003-01-21 17:39, HDSarah wrote:
Also, if it's in D flat major, written as a C-flute part, doesn't that mean that it really IS in the key of D flat major? What I mean is, isn't C-flute music like piano music, in that the note printed on the page is the actual note that sounds, and isn't automatically transposed into another key?

The way I understood it, the point of the question is this: If written for a "C" (= non-transposing) instrument, the part is written in what it is supposed to sound in, Db major. Thing is, though, that whistles aren't really chromatic instruments, and you'd be half-holing yourself to death, trying to play something in Db on a D-whistle. But whistles come in all different keys. Stands to reason that there is a whistle in some key out there on which this thing could be played without much half-holing.

So how to find out which whistle that is? First, you figure that you are going to play every whistle (no matter what key) as if it were a D-whistle. That means that every whistle (except D) transposes. Then you you get the piece of music you want to play into a D-whistle friendly key: Dmajor or Gmajor (and the related minors and modes). That will mean transposing up or down as the case may be. Then, to compensate for the that up-or-down thing, you've got to choose a whistle that does just the opposite, is pitched down-or-up, relative to a D-whistle.

Example: You want to play something that is written in F-major (one flat). You transpose it UP one whole step to G-major (one sharp, and D-whistle friendly). By transpose I mean, you write it out on staff paper that way. Then you've got to compensate for transposing one step UP, by choosing a whistle that is one step DOWN from a D-whistle. That would be a C-whistle, of course, and voila: you can play with easy fingerings in the right key: G-major played on a C-whistle sounds F-major.

Note to the perplexed. "C-instrument" means non-transposing, sounding as written, and is not the same thing as a C-whistle (a whistle pitched in C).

Good luck figuring this out.

_________________
/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2003-01-21 18:08 ]

HDSarah · Post by **HDSarah** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:03 pm

Thanks, that actually makes perfect sense to me.

And by the way, Bloomfield, is the "Groovy Pioneer Valley" the one in western Mass? I went to college there, many years ago.

Sarah
starting to learn how to think like a whistler

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:06 pm

On 2003-01-21 18:03, HDSarah wrote:
Thanks, that actually makes perfect sense to me.

And by the way, Bloomfield, is the "Groovy Pioneer Valley" the one in western Mass? I went to college there, many years ago.

Sarah
starting to learn how to think like a whistler

Sarah, I'm glad it makes sense. Yes, that's the Pioneer Valley all right. Beautiful place. And very very groovy.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:55 pm

On 2003-01-21 17:50, Bloomfield wrote:
Note to the perplexed. "C-instrument" means non-transposing, sounding as written, and is not the same thing as a C-whistle (a whistle pitched in C).

Correct, provided the C-whistle is played with the D-whistle-fingering, in which case it will be a transposing instrument sounding 2 semitones lower than the written notes (like a Bb orchestral instrument). Of course a D-whistle plays in concert pitch like a C orchestral instrument. Well, actually this is an over-simplification, since the whistles sound an octave higher than what I've described.

Feadan · Post by **Feadan** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:57 pm

On 2003-01-21 18:06, Bloomfield wrote:
Sarah, I'm glad it makes sense. Yes, that's the Pioneer Valley all right. Beautiful place. And very very groovy.

Hey! It's more than very very groovy. It's ultra groovy! Of course it was even more so when Faces was still Faces of Earth and there was still such a thing as The Yellow Sun Co-op (not to mention The Drake).

Cheers,
David

P.S. Fairbanks...must make New England winters look downright balmy!

[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2003-01-21 22:09 ]

CDon · Post by **CDon** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:01 pm

On 2003-01-21 17:39, HDSarah wrote:
I'm confused.

Sorry Sarah... That was not my intent. Listen to Bloomfield. He has a good approach.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:01 pm

On 2003-01-21 21:57, Feadan wrote:
On 2003-01-21 18:06, Bloomfield wrote:
Sarah, I'm glad it makes sense. Yes, that's the Pioneer Valley all right. Beautiful place. And very very groovy.
Hey! It's more than very very groovy. It's ultra groovy! Of course it was even more so when Faces was still Faces of Earth and there was still such a thing as The Yellow Sun Co-op (not to mention The Drake).

Cheers,
David

P.S. Fairbanks...must make New England winters look downright balmy!

[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2003-01-21 22:09 ]

David!
I cannot say how much I've missed you. I didn't want to write "ultra" groovy because it seemed sacriligious in your absence. And then I almost gave you credit for the phrase, anyway!

How can you stand it out there on the bleeding Cape, and when are you coming back? At least for a session? We've got to do Cragie Hills again, we've got to!

*weeps

"Ultra groovy Pioneer Valley" © 2001 Feadan. Used by permission.

Sandy Jasper · Post by **Sandy Jasper** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:53 pm

3 choices!

1) Transpose the music into the key of D (semi-tone up)and play it on a Db whistle

2) Transpose the music into the key of G (6 semi-tones down) and play it on an F# whistle

3) Get a flute!

Best of luck, this is not too hard providing you can get yourself the whistle you need!

Sandy

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:12 am

On 2003-01-22 00:53, Sandy Jasper wrote:
1) Transpose the music into the key of D (semi-tone up)and play it on a Db whistle

That's probably the simplest solution. Some D whistles can be tuned to Db. I can do this with my Burke wide bore brass and my Susato VSB Kildare.

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:22 am

Yes, but that could be tricky. Tuning to Db will wack out your intonation. With orchestral accompaniment (usually spot on tuning), your out of intonation whistle could sound pretty out of tune. I'd check this well in advance.

I know that there are folks that make C# whistles. You may wish to check around (Colin Goldie is one)... One may be able to be next day aired if it is important enough.

Erik