Light fingers...an epiphany??

[AngelicBeaver]

I was playing a couple of weeks ago and I suddenly realized that trying to come down and cut on a C# was not working well partly because the whistle jumps a little and follows my finger up (slightly) as I try to make the cut (with my top finger). A few days ago, I realized that I was putting too much pressure on the holes, causing the whistle to wiggle and jump as fingers come and go.

I then realized that ornamentation speed HAS to suffer because of this. Popping a finger off and on again takes a fraction of a second, and the finger barely moves. If it's mashed down, you can easily double the distance you have to move your finger, thus doubling the time it takes to sound the ornament.

Practicing light fingers, and I can already tell a difference, although it's messed up my timing on the cut that started all the self-reflection (which means I'm cutting faster).

I just thought I'd share this, as it isn't something that one can get from watching other people play. I didn't have a death grip or anything. Just more pressure than was needed. Maybe I was trying to cover the holes more extra gooder.

[bogman]

The whistle shouldn't really move more while playing c# than with any other note. The whistle should be held firmly (but not tightly or tensely) with the mouth , thumbs and pinky of the bottom hand. It should be perfectly stable just using your mouth and the bottom thumb and pinky. Ornamentation round the c# is one of the trickier aspects of the whistle though and takes most people a bit of working out.

[Infernaltootler]

Thanks for sharing Angelic Beaver.

Not enough threads here about actually playing the beast.

I'll look into your advice later but I know you are right because I've been working on making my fingers flutter on holes which takes practise practise practise and when you loosen up it really helps.

I can't using my little (or pinky) finger - it does not reach the whistle very well.

I was told to press the mouth piece onto my teeth to steady it by someone who knows what they are talking about but I admit I struggle to implement this. When i conciously try and do it it really does steady the whistle and so may work for you.

all the best

[Peter Duggan]

I was told to press the mouth piece onto my teeth to steady it by someone who knows what they are talking about

Have to say I'm struggling to equate the last seven words of that with the rest!

[Jleo Fipple]

I was playing a couple of weeks ago and I suddenly realized that trying to come down and cut on a C# was not working well partly because the whistle jumps a little and follows my finger up (slightly) as I try to make the cut (with my top finger). A few days ago, I realized that I was putting too much pressure on the holes, causing the whistle to wiggle and jump as fingers come and go.

I then realized that ornamentation speed HAS to suffer because of this. Popping a finger off and on again takes a fraction of a second, and the finger barely moves. If it's mashed down, you can easily double the distance you have to move your finger, thus doubling the time it takes to sound the ornament.

Practicing light fingers, and I can already tell a difference, although it's messed up my timing on the cut that started all the self-reflection (which means I'm cutting faster).

I just thought I'd share this, as it isn't something that one can get from watching other people play. I didn't have a death grip or anything. Just more pressure than was needed. Maybe I was trying to cover the holes more extra gooder.

Most excellent post and not to say you are a beginner at this point but me and I'm sure many other beginners to whistle forget to relax. Not maintaining relaxed posture and mindset can lead to physical rigidity while practicing/playing. From my own short time in whistling the easiest way I can think to identify this rigidity in play/practice is when I play a simple tune that I know well the ease of play and flowing relaxed fingers is evident to me. This all changes drastically when I am practicing a tune I don't know so well. My focus is different I become more narrow minded and far from relaxed the intense focus to get my fingers under control in turn creates a robotic stiffness in the phalanges and possibly extends up through the arms and into the shoulders. After a long practice session.. I sometimes feel like I'd been to the gym the following day

To sum up, for me as a beginner it's great to be able to identify the unset of bad focus/posture/attitude while practicing and combating the issue immediately becomes easier. Thank you for your post. Now Relax and say after me, "OooooSaaaah" (exhale while saying) and when you feel stiffness break your concentration gently shake out your hands and arms and remind your self to relax. The "No pain no gain" mentality does not work when learning a musical instrument

[AngelicBeaver]

I am still very much a beginner.

[Infernaltootler]

I was told to press the mouth piece onto my teeth to steady it by someone who knows what they are talking about

Have to say I'm struggling to equate the last seven words of that with the rest!

I probably didn't make myself very clear, you don't bite it, you put it against the front of your lower front teeth. Horrible with a metal whistle but just about ok with a plastic one.

Don't knock it til you've tried it.

[Peter Duggan]

I probably didn't make myself very clear, you don't bite it, you put it against the front of your lower front teeth.

Nope, I understood perfectly the first time, but still think it's poor advice!

[Infernaltootler]

I suppose it's like anything, once you've been playing a while you can pick and choose which advice to take and have confidence in doing something that suits you which someone else may not agree with.

For instance I used to be quite religious about slurring every note and never tonguing but now I do what ever seems right and use tonguing techniques all over the place.

[mor.whistle]

This is something that has been puzzling me for quite a while. I have noticed, as I progressed and became more confident in playing, that I tend to slap my fingers on the whistle causing it to jiggle. Unless I apply a great pressure with my lips against the fipple, it basically tries to flip out of my mouth, but holding a firm lip-grip is painful both for the muscles involved and on the lip itself, especially the upper one.
I believe this is similar to what the OP was talking about and I think it is the reason why I have acquired the bad (as Peter wisely remarked) habit of biting (mildly) the fipple or gently resting the embouchure against my teeth.

As with many bad habits, when your aware you have them, you always try to fight and correct the wrong behavior but is difficult because the finger slapping is somehow something that gives rhythm if you know what I mean.

Is this common for newbie players?

[ecohawk]

Light fingers indeed. When I first took up whistle, I was matriculating from recorder so I had already developed some pretty good habits about finger placement and instrument control, although on the recorder I used a thumb loop which would be heresy on the whistle and largely impossible to consistently implement.

Beginners generally suffer from breath control and finger placement issues. The finger placement issues usually come from using tips instead of pads and in the process of learning how to hold the whistle to accommodate physical differences, a too tight grip is often the result. I agree completely that putting the tip of the whistle anywhere near or on your teeth or gripping it tightly with the lips is a huge mistake. The mouthpiece should never extend past the lips and will often result in excess moisture accumulating in the windway.

I have big hands, so resting my pinkies against the whistle to steady it is easy for me. But I've seen great players with small hands or short pinkies use pipers (Super-EZ) grip on high whistles with great success as a result of the rock solid hand position. The added benefit would be that one would use the same grip on all whistles making lower range instruments more easily accessible. If it were me, I'd adopt this strategy rather than use a gimmick that IMHO places stress on one's embouchure as the solution.

...and it would encourage those highly desirable "light fingers"

ecohawk

[mor.whistle]

I agree completely that putting the tip of the whistle anywhere near or on your teeth or gripping it tightly with the lips is a huge mistake. The mouthpiece should never extend past the lips and will often result in excess moisture accumulating in the windway.

Interesting thought.
I have noticed that whenever I have the mouthpiece resting on my teeth or the have teeth gently clinging it, moisture in the windway is drastically diminished.
Don't picture my teeth work as biting, chewing or crunching the embouchure as sometimes we do with pencils and pen's caps, rather like a touch, a rest indeed, a finger wouldn't be harmed.

And don't get me wrong, I agree with you about this habit to be a bad one, indeed I'm working hard on trying to get rid of it.

...and it would encourage those highly desirable "light fingers"

Am I correct in understanding that a pipers grip would in your opinion help develop "light fingering"?

Ciao

[pancelticpiper]

Popping a finger off and on again takes a fraction of a second, and the finger barely moves. If it's mashed down, you can easily double the distance you have to move your finger, thus doubling the time it takes to sound the ornament.

In my opinion you're mixing two different things 1) finger tension and 2) the distance the finger travels.

It's a quite common mistake beginners make, who are having trouble getting their "cuts" (upper gracenotes) quick enough, to try to achieve it by not lifting the finger as high. On Highland pipes, uilleann pipes, flute, and whistle the gracenote finger needs to lift high enough to be quite clear of the hole in order to get a clear-sounding gracenote. I just measured my fingers and they're going over 1cm (over 1/2 inch) high. The quickness, the speed or velocity, comes from keeping the fingers relaxed and many hours of practice.

Same is true for "pats" or lower gracenotes. Many beginners, especially those coming from orchestral instruments, hold the patting finger fairly close to the instrument and to do a pat move the finger from this "guide position", to the hole, and back to the guide position. The resulting pat is far too sluggish, too slow. You'll see many good players, a splitsecond before the pat, lift the patting finger up higher (around an inch or 2cm away from the hole). This increase in distance does the opposite of what you suggest: it allows the finger to accelerate and strike the hole at a much higher velocity, creating a much quicker pat. The player's fingers are "light" and relaxed which, combined with distance, allows the required velocity to be achieved. The greater distance does not imply greater force or tension.

[ecohawk]

Am I correct in understanding that a pipers grip would in your opinion help develop "light fingering"?

Ciao

Mostly yes. I'm saying that the tight grip is often, but not always, a result of having trouble controlling the whistle, often because of the inability or unwillingness to keep pinkies resting on the whistle. Piper's or Super EZ grip solves that problem hence....

As always YMMV. Horses for courses, if you will.



And I second Pancelticpipers comments completely

ecohawk

[AngelicBeaver]

As the pads of the fingers are soft, mashing them down increases the distance they must travel to get clear of the hole, as you have to add the small distance it takes to decompress the skin. That's what I meant by the tight grip meaning slower cuts.

However, I did not realize that the top finger moved so much. I have certainly been trying to keep the cut movement as small as possible. I'll have to experiment with that. In that case, a few mm of skin flex wouldn't make much difference. Thanks for the tip.