Garry Somers flutes

[bonefamily]

Hello everyone! I am a beginning flute player and am currently playing on a Tipple 2 piece in D. While I love this flute, I would like to add another to have a different contrast in tone and just something to go back and forth with. I am looking at the Garry Somers aluminum flute as it falls nicely into my budget. To those that have played/own this flute, I would like to know how the hole spacing compares to the Tipple and if the Somers is a heavier or lighter flute than the Tipple. Also, seeing how I am still relatively new to flute playing, how does the embouchure hole compare to the Tipple in terms of playability? Of course being a new player, I don't want to have two flutes that feel and play completely different - save that for when I am more experienced Thanks for the help!

[Denny]

Play the Tipple for a couple of years...


If yer still playing, start to think about a new flute.

[O'Mulriain]

I'm new to the Irish flute as well and own a D bamboo flute made by Erik the flutemaker. It's a nice flute considering the price, he cares about quality and customer satisfaction but at the same time there's only so much you can do with a cylindrical (as opposed to tapered) piece of bamboo. I have been dissecting the Irish flute market lately and have determined that the best thing for people like you or me to do is play our little beginner instruments for the however many years it takes us to save up for one of those multi-thousand dollar Irish flutes from a renowned maker (those keyed ones can get especially pricey), in other words a quality flute that will make you happy for the rest of your musical life (not to say you wouldn't want to get several Irish flutes as a collector). Or if you are financially privileged and can afford one now, I'd advise you follow Denny's suggestion.

[jim stone]

Hello everyone! I am a beginning flute player and am currently playing on a Tipple 2 piece in D. While I love this flute, I would like to add another to have a different contrast in tone and just something to go back and forth with. I am looking at the Garry Somers aluminum flute as it falls nicely into my budget. To those that have played/own this flute, I would like to know how the hole spacing compares to the Tipple and if the Somers is a heavier or lighter flute than the Tipple. Also, seeing how I am still relatively new to flute playing, how does the embouchure hole compare to the Tipple in terms of playability? Of course being a new player, I don't want to have two flutes that feel and play completely different - save that for when I am more experienced Thanks for the help!

I haven't heard from anybody who has played the Somers aluminum flute. I think Denny's advice is good, except
maybe one year is long enough. If you find you love Irish fluting, there are relatively inexpensive improvements,
like the Casey Burns Folk Flute. There are also some good flutes available for under 1000, e.g. Copley. Probably the real
contrast you need is with wood--though there are good reports about newish Delrin flutes, again not
very expensive--e.g. under 400. Spending money on other flutes in the price range of the Tipple
takes the money you need to take a real step up.

There is a search function, as you probably know, and lots of helpful info/discussions about how/when newbies
can move up. Suggest you read these pages. Good info. Not that you shouldn't ask questions.

If you do buy a significantly better flute, you usually can recover your money or a good part of it,
by selling it. The point is to make wise choices as to where to go.

[MeMyselfandI]

there are good reports about newish Delrin flutes, again not
very expensive--e.g. under 400.

Maybe make that $450? Forbes flutes are about $450 last I checked. Anyway, although there is a difference between wood and delrin, delrin is still very good. Good as in good enough that some will sacrifice the slightly better sound of wood just to get the indestructibility and uniformity of delrin. Plus, delrin is good in any climate with no worries what so ever. If you live in a fairly stable climate though, you don't really have to worry about the wood cracking if you take good care of it. So wood is good if you want the absolute best sound, delrin is good if you want a really good sound, and are on a really tight budget.

best thing for people like you or me to do is play our little beginner instruments for the however many years it takes us to save up for one of those multi-thousand dollar Irish flutes from a renowned maker (those keyed ones can get especially pricey), in other words a quality flute that will make you happy for the rest of your musical life

Quite right you are. Although, I would recommend getting a keyless flute first, then going for a keyed flute, but keep the keyless. A lot of times, people will get a keyed flute before they have a backup. So, they order the keyed flute, and after months or years, it finally comes in. They try to play it, but become intimidated by all of the keys, or they just find the keys to be a hassle or just plain in the way. When that happens, they tend to not play it much, and feel that their investment was a waste, and that's depressing. But then you don't want to sell it because you don't have a really good flute to play on anymore, so now it's hard to get your money back and you don't want to play it... That's even more depressing (yeah, I exaggerated that a little, but it gets the point across). So, from my research, not experience yet, its best to get a good keyless flute to fall back on, and then go for a keyed without selling the keyless. Then, viola! You now have 3 flutes! Your first one, the spare keyless, and the good keyed flute!

[jim stone]

The Sweetheart Shannon, a delrin flute that I haven't played but is getting very positive reviews on this board,
lists for 275.

[O'Mulriain]

Thanks for the advice, MeMyselfandI. Being a minor (which translates in the financial world as not very rich) it would make more sense for me to save up for a less expensive (but still pricey) top notch keyless flute and after developing my skill on that instrument for a few years get a dedicated fully keyed one. I'll think about it.

[Herb]

One thing that no one has mentioned is that the Tipple and the Somers aluminum (judging only from photos I've seen) are cylindrical bore flutes. Conical bore flutes, which are generally the norm in ITM, play quite differently. The Forbes and the Copley are conical bore, and are each based on historical models. I've owned both, and either might be all the flute you would ever need - they're both that good. My preference is for the extra heft and the solid silver rings of the Copley, although others may lean in the opposite direction. Delrin Copleys regularly turn up used at reasonable prices. Somers also makes various models of conical flute in delrin at very reasonable prices, although I've never seen or heard one. Also, Rob and Dave are both great to work with and really stand behind their work.

And BTW, the Copley delrin C flute is fabulous.

[onewheeldave]

I'm new to the Irish flute as well and own a D bamboo flute made by Erik the flutemaker. It's a nice flute considering the price, he cares about quality and customer satisfaction but at the same time there's only so much you can do with a cylindrical (as opposed to tapered) piece of bamboo. I have been dissecting the Irish flute market lately and have determined that the best thing for people like you or me to do is play our little beginner instruments for the however many years it takes us to save up for one of those multi-thousand dollar Irish flutes from a renowned maker (those keyed ones can get especially pricey), in other words a quality flute that will make you happy for the rest of your musical life (not to say you wouldn't want to get several Irish flutes as a collector). Or if you are financially privileged and can afford one now, I'd advise you follow Denny's suggestion.

It's worth pointing out that bansuris are bamboo cylindrical flutes, and, no-one's reached any limits with those

I guess Irish music does need a tapered bore to acheive the best though.

But a multi-thousand dollar investment is not necessary- delrin flutes by Copley, Forbes, Somers etc, are every bit as good as the more expensive wooden flutes.

[jim stone]

[quote="onewheeldave"

But a multi-thousand dollar investment is not necessary- delrin flutes by Copley, Forbes, Somers etc, are every bit as good as the more expensive wooden flutes.[/quote]

Agree that a multi-thousand dollar investment is not necessary. Disagree that delrin flutes by Copley,forbes, Somers, etc
are every bit as good as the more expensive wooden flutes.

[Peter Duggan]

Disagree that delrin flutes by Copley,forbes, Somers, etc
are every bit as good as the more expensive wooden flutes.

So, Jim... are you suggesting that (talking about Copleys because I don't know so much about the others) a Copley Delrin isn't as good as a (more expensive) Copley wood or that (as possibly also implied by your wording) no Copley is as good as 'the more expensive wooden flutes' (whatever they may be)?

If the former, I'm going to posit that Delrin v wood is largely (ignoring the maintenance issues) an aesthetic choice and people believe wood to be better because it's traditional, they like it and want it to be better (in which case I'd concede that it is better for them).

If the latter, I can't really think of anyone universally acknowledged to be top-of-the-tree except possibly Olwell and Wilkes, but rumour has it that some good players still prefer Copleys!

[Maihcol]

"... the Somers aluminum (judging only from photos I've seen) are cylindrical bore flutes..."

"... cylindrical (as opposed to tapered)..."

"...I guess Irish music does need a tapered bore to acheive the best though..."

Hope people won't mind me quoting them a bit out of context above but just to clear up the issue of whether the bore of my aluminium flute with delrin head is a straight cylinder.

The delrin head on my aluminium flutes has a Boehm type taper in the bore for good tuning - so it's not at all a straight cylinder.

In fact the bore of this flute is very similar to the modern silver flute, except that the delrin head is a little shorter than the usual silver flute head-joint. So the bore of the head tapers down from 19mm where it joins the body, to around 17.5mm at the embouchure hole and the bore of the body is 19mm all the way through, same as the modern Boehm flute.

The embouchure hole is cut as a broad oval and the tonehole sizes and the stretches between them are about the same as for a Pratten, with the E-hole (lowest tonehole) being just a touch larger at around 8mm.

There are some sound clips (numbers 7,8,9) for that flute model, on my website.

http://www.somers-flutes.com/prices-contact

And some photos here:

http://www.somers-flutes.com/aluminium- ... elrin-head

Patrick (Doc) Jones of the Irish Flute Store, USA, has some of these in stock at the moment:

http://shop.irishflutestore.com/Flutes_c3.htm

If you get one from him, he'll be able to pay for some more seeds for his herb garden.

Garry

[Peter Duggan]

Conical bore flutes, which are generally the norm in ITM, play quite differently.

I guess Irish music does need a tapered bore to acheive the best though.

See also what Calum Stewart says about his new Worrell RC flute (and, yes, I know that he likes wood!).

[onewheeldave]

But a multi-thousand dollar investment is not necessary- delrin flutes by Copley, Forbes, Somers etc, are every bit as good as the more expensive wooden flutes.

Agree that a multi-thousand dollar investment is not necessary. Disagree that delrin flutes by Copley,forbes, Somers, etc
are every bit as good as the more expensive wooden flutes.

It's generally acknowledged by a significant portion of top flute players that a well made delrin flute is pretty much acoustically equivalent to a well made wood flute.

Obviously, tuning will be every bit as good. Many reckon the tone is just as good as well, and, of those who disagree, there have been several instances of, when it's put to the test scientifically (i.e. the listener does not know in advance whether the flute they're hearing is wood or delrin), they are not able to tell which is which.

I think wood will always have a certain 'status', due to it's aesthetic differences, the traditional aspects, and, due to the fact that good wood flutes are considerably more expensive than delrin ones it will generally be the case that good professional players will tend to posess wooden flutes, as they can afford them, thus enhancing the status effect in the eyes of those who aspire to be like them.

Even if wooden flutes were superior in some way to delrin, the fact remains that for 99% of flute players, a good delrin flute will enable them to do whatever they want to do with a flute.

[onewheeldave]

"... the Somers aluminum (judging only from photos I've seen) are cylindrical bore flutes..."

"... cylindrical (as opposed to tapered)..."

"...I guess Irish music does need a tapered bore to acheive the best though..."

Hope people won't mind me quoting them a bit out of context above but just to clear up the issue of whether the bore of my aluminium flute with delrin head is a straight cylinder.

The delrin head on my aluminium flutes has a Boehm type taper in the bore for good tuning - so it's not at all a straight cylinder.

In fact the bore of this flute is very similar to the modern silver flute, except that the delrin head is a little shorter than the usual silver flute head-joint. So the bore of the head tapers down from 19mm where it joins the body, to around 17.5mm at the embouchure hole and the bore of the body is 19mm all the way through, same as the modern Boehm flute.

The embouchure hole is cut as a broad oval and the tonehole sizes and the stretches between them are about the same as for a Pratten, with the E-hole (lowest tonehole) being just a touch larger at around 8mm.

There are some sound clips (numbers 7,8,9) for that flute model, on my website.

http://www.somers-flutes.com/prices-contact

And some photos here:

http://www.somers-flutes.com/aluminium- ... elrin-head

Patrick (Doc) Jones of the Irish Flute Store, USA, has some of these in stock at the moment:

http://shop.irishflutestore.com/Flutes_c3.htm

If you get one from him, he'll be able to pay for some more seeds for his herb garden.

Garry

Although they achieve the same purpose, a Boehm style head or wedge is not what I'd call a tapered bore.

Boehm flutes have a cylindrical body, as does your aluminium flute- the tuning issues are sorted out by the head shaping.

I'm not sure that that means that other issues are resolved by head shaping?

For example, on a Irish flute the tapered bore makes for closer hole spacing compared to a cylindrical body- it makes fingering more acheivable.

Then there's that 'dark tone' that Irish players strive for, and, Irish flute makers spend much of their time trying to achieve in their flutes- can we be sure that the tapered body of the traditional Irish flute doesn't assist with that?