Help transposing for tin whistle

[cunparis]

I'm really stuck on this, I've been working on it for a while so I thought I'd ask for help. if I can just get one correct example then I think I will be able to use it as a template for others.

I have a songbook in the key of C. I'd like to play a few of these songs on my tin whistle. For example, one song is in Amin (same key sig as C). The first 3 notes are E C A.

I found a karaoke file that is in Eminor.

I know my D flute can play Eminor and I'd prefer to play it on my alto G. Now here's where I'm stuck.

I think I first need to transpose my music from Aminor to Eminor to match the karaoke file but then I'm not sure what to do. I think I then need to take it from Eminor and transpose it for the D flute (and for the G Flute). I tried it and it didn't sound right so I must have missed something.

If someone can give me some advice on this I'd really appreciate it. I know how to transpose from one key to another but I'm not sure to which keys I should be transposing!

[Innocent Bystander]

Here are a couple of ways to let the computer do it for you.
Jens Wollschläger's ABC transposer.

If you can rewrite your score in abc, copy it into the business area of this page, and transpose it up or down as required.

In fact, you don't need even to do that, as the latest versions of ABC Explorer will do this anyway. It will transpose your tune up or down as necessary, with the click of a screen-button.
http://stalikez.info/abc/abcex.php ABC Explorer is freeware.
It doesn't take much effort to copy an existing score into ABC, even if you are new to ABC notation.

There is another way to do it, if you have two whistles. Your tune is in C (or Am). Play it on your C whistle.
Then use the exact same fingering to play it on your D whistle. You have transposed your tune!

[cunparis]

I really don't want to learn ABC notation.

Here is what I did:

I wrote out Am & Em scales (music in Am and Karaoke song is in Em):

A B C D E F G
E F# G A B C D

since my D whistle plays Eminor I just transposed each note up 5 steps. Thus:

E C A became B G E

This sounds ok so I think it's correct. However there is a problem: Although the song is in Aminor, it actually starts on the 5th and so it requires playing a lot in the upper octave which on a D can be a bit piercing (especially when used to a G).

So I looked at the "decyphering whistle keys" page and I looked to see what other whistles can play Eminor and I find the G whistle!

I so write out the notes on the D whistle and the E whistle:

D E F# G A B C# D
G A B C D E F# G

so I then transpose each note down 7 half steps. Thus:

B G E becomes E C A

which oddly enough is exactly what is written on the sheet music! However when I get to the 2nd measure there is a problem. The second measure on the written sheet music contains an F natural. I transposed that to C natural on the D whistle which makes sense as the Eminor scale has the C natural. However when I transpose C natural down 7 half steps for the G whistle I get F natural (which is also what's written on the sheet music so I think I'm right). This requires half-holing on the G whistle.

But when I look at the "decyphering whistle keys" table (http://www.chiffandfipple.com/whistlekeys.html), using the last scale on the bottom, it uses F# instead of F natural.



Furthermore I just noticed that in Eminor the second note is a C natural and this table has it as a C#. So this table must be showing a different kind of minor scale.

I must be missing something because I doubt the table is incorrect.

This exercise was fun and I'm having fun learning to play Fnatural by half-holing.

[Innocent Bystander]

I'm missing something too. A G whistle? Playing F natural?

On a D whistle, you play C# as

O O O O O O + ( i.e. all holes open, and overblowing. The plus indicates overblowing.)

On a D whistle, you play C♮ (Natural) as

O X X O O O + ( i.e. second and third holes covered.)

It is also how you play an F# and an F♮ on a G whistle. Why half-hole if you don't need to?

[mayo_piper]

Funny, I was just transposing some tunes - by hand! It is laborous and you have to be careful as not make a mistake. I do it a funny way. I find the lowest note , a 'low C' and bring it up to be a 'low 'D'. I just count the steps to do so (1).

Am I going it right? It sounds good afterwards and is just used as a guild until it's memorized. I add on the ususal trimmings and make it my own.

Peace,

[hoopy mike]

I really don't want to learn ABC notation.

Here is what I did:

I wrote out Am & Em scales (music in Am and Karaoke song is in Em):

A B C D E F G
E F# G A B C D...

That's pretty much abc notation already. G'wan - it isn't difficult.

[cunparis]

Here are a couple of ways to let the computer do it for you.
Jens Wollschläger's ABC transposer.

If you can rewrite your score in abc, copy it into the business area of this page, and transpose it up or down as required.

Ok I read the ABC tutorial and it seems easy enough. So I found my tune (Close Every Door) in the ABC Tune Search and I copied the ABC text into the transposer. It's in Am. I took it up one half-step and then back down and now it's in the key of A and it's incorrect (has 3 sharps). I think there is a problem with the transposer for minor keys.

Here is a link to the song:

http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=abc.s ... s.txt/0019

[cunparis]

in fact, you don't need even to do that, as the latest versions of ABC Explorer will do this anyway. It will transpose your tune up or down as necessary, with the click of a screen-button.

I can get it to play transposed but it's not changing the ABC text. Is there an option for that?

[cunparis]

I finally found my error! Really subtle but important:

I write out the notes on the D whistle and the E whistle:

D E F# G A B C# D
G A B C D E F# G

so I then transpose each note down 7 half steps. Thus:

B G E becomes E C A

which oddly enough is exactly what is written on the sheet music!

The error was transposing down 7 half-steps. My logic was based on writing out the notes. From D to G is 7 half-steps. Seems logical but it's incorrect. If I play a G on my D whistle it's the same as fingering a D on the G whistle. So from G down to D is 5 half-steps and that's how many half-steps I need to transpose down.

So:

B G E becomes F# D B

and now the song fits perfectly in the G whistle range without half-holing. And the final result for the G whistle is two half-steps above the written sheet music.

Glad I got this figured out. I learned a lot. Took me hours but worth it. I hope this thread will help others wanting to transpose.

PS: The ABC notation is cool to find songs, only catch is the page that transposes doesn't seem to work for minor songs. In fact I can't even get it to transpose the original song up two half steps so that it starts on F# instead of E. But I'll keep playing with it.

[fearfaoin]

Ok I read the ABC tutorial and it seems easy enough. So I found my tune (Close Every Door) in the ABC Tune Search and I copied the ABC text into the transposer. It's in Am. I took it up one half-step and then back down and now it's in the key of A and it's incorrect (has 3 sharps). I think there is a problem with the transposer for minor keys.

This transposer doesn't work in half steps, only whole steps.
That's why when you go up, it goes from Am to Bm, not to
Bbm.

But you're right, there's somthing wrong with going down from
Bm to Am. The K: tag becomes A instead of Am like it should.
If you change it to "K: Am" you will be fine.

But really, I think you're making this too complicated by xposing
to Em. Just go up one step to Bm since your D whistle can play
in Bm. Then if you really need it to be in Em, play it on your G
whistle using the Bm fingerings.

[JTC111]

But really, I think you're making this too complicated by xposing
to Em. Just go up one step to Bm since your D whistle can play
in Bm. Then if you really need it to be in Em, play it on your G
whistle using the Bm fingerings.

Agreed. One really only needs to know how to play in two keys on a whistle, D and G. Transpose everything to one of those and just change whistles to play in another key.

For example, if I have music written in D and I want to play in F, I'll simply grab an F whistle and use the same fingering I'd use if I were playing in D on a D whistle.

And if I have music written in G and I want to play in A, I'll simply grab an E whistle and use the same fingering I'd use if I were playing in G on a D whistle.

There's a chart about halfway down on this page that should help: Deciphering Whistle Keys

For the OP's song in Em, you don't really have to do anything. G is the relative minor of Em so the notes will be the same. Use a D whistle and you're golden.

[cunparis]

For the OP's song in Em, you don't really have to do anything. G is the relative minor of Em so the notes will be the same. Use a D whistle and you're golden.

You missed a subtle but important point: my sheet music was in Am, my backing track was in Em, and my flute in G (playing it on the D flute resulted in the entire second being in the 2nd octave). So transposing the sheet music was inevitable. But I agree that I may over-complicated it, but I learned a lot in the process.

[Katharine]

I won't even lie: I'm lazy. I use music notation software. Put it in as written, hit "transpose."

[cunparis]

I won't even lie: I'm lazy. I use music notation software. Put it in as written, hit "transpose."

I almost did that. Finding it in ABC made it easier as I didn't have to type in the notes.

But the transposing is easy. The hard part is finding out what key to transpose to.

Now I have a shortcut: Sheet music in C or Amin => transpose up 2 half-steps for the G whistle.

[mutepointe]

Funny, I was just transposing some tunes - by hand! It is laborous and you have to be careful as not make a mistake. I do it a funny way. I find the lowest note , a 'low C' and bring it up to be a 'low 'D'. I just count the steps to do so (1).

Am I going it right? It sounds good afterwards and is just used as a guild until it's memorized. I add on the ususal trimmings and make it my own.

Peace,

I hand transpose music all the time and I'm usually in a big rush to do it. (One of the other musicians at church doesn't have the song in the right key and can't transpose in their head and the song is coming up.) I write both scales, one above the other. then i start with the first note in the song, change that note and go through the music and find all of those notes and change those notes. Then I go to the second note, then third note. Less time, Less thinking, less mistakes. At least for me.