Battle of the Tutorials: Larsen v. McCormack

[MichaelRS]

Thank you all for all your advice on my other thred re recommended self-instruction tutorials.
Based on all the information all of you have given me I've narrowed it down to two that seem most popular. So i need you help on last time.

I have to be picky at this point as I am on a strict budget, having recently gone on disability form a work realted auto accident. That is why I have to start off slow and get the most bang for my buck initially. I have an instructor lined up. But it will be a good month to 6 weeks before I can take up with him. Well, maybe sooner, if at least for one lesson on how to sound my flute properly.

For now I've narrowed my search, based on your advice, down to one of two tutorials.
Grey Larsen's "Essential Guide to the Irish Flute....". And June MCCormack's "Fliuit".

So, if you were a beginner on the flute, at a music level where you could play some simple, slow tunes on a whistle, and had to be stuck on a desert island, with only one of these books and a CD player (no computer) to teach you the flute, which would it be and why?
And why would you reccomend one over the other?

Thank you for helping me and many other beginners.

MRS

[narrowdog]

'Fliuit'
Great selection of tunes played slow and then up to a gentle speed
and you won't have to lug 2Kg round you desert island.

[MTGuru]

Just a caveat, Michael ... You're going to find that many people have very strong feelings about Grey Larsen and his book, both positive and negative. If you look back through Chiffboard posts, you'll find some all-out flame wars. (And, hopefully, not another one here.)

It seems to come down to some people considering Grey an American impostor whose Irish playing style is flawed, and his instructional style too mechanical. And others who think his Irish-American playing is fine, and the wealth of detail in his book is useful. There's no resolving this pie-fight, so you just have to decide for yourself.

June's book seems to arouse no such controversy, and apart from some minor errata, is generally regarded as a good tutorial, perhaps closer to the traditional Irish way of teaching.

If your instructor has a preference, I'd go with that.

[Latticino]

I have, and have used both books, and as MTGuru said they each have their strong points. On a very basic physical level though, I found the McCormack book a little easier to use, just because it is so much thinner than the Larsen book (fits more easily on a music stand and pages hold open more easily). Larsen certainly goes in to MUCH more detail on fingering of ornaments, music and instrument theory, and has his own philosophy on everything from the proper way to hold a flute to the best method for notating ornaments in staff version. You would probably be happier with either, but if I had to choose from a beginner's perspective, and had an instructor, I'd be more likely to go with the McCormack book (unless my instructor specifically preferred the other).

[tin tin]

There's good to be said about both, but I'd go with Fliuit. Larsen's is a more academic/encyclopedic approach, which can be rather overwhelming. McCormack breaks things down into some manageable bits and gets you playing tunes right off. As mentioned above, that's a more traditional approach to learning the music. It's all about listening, trying to sound like that, listening some (lots) more, and so on.

[crickett]

I've used both but I have spent (and continue to spend) much more time with Fliuit. It won't teach you about holding the flute or embouchure (which the Larsen book does), but once you are up and running to a certain extent it is a great learning tool. In fairness, though, I also spent some time carefully reading the earlier sections of the Larsen, which I found valuable.

[NicoMoreno]

considering Grey an American impostor whose Irish playing style is flawed

I'm not picking on you, honestly!

But I thought I might point out that it might have little to do with whether people think Grey is an American imposter. I for one, don't think that. I think there are many Irish people whose Irish playing style is flawed...

[MichaelRS]

Just a caveat, Michael ... You're going to find that many people have very strong feelings about Grey Larsen and his book, both positive and negative. If you look back through Chiffboard posts, you'll find some all-out flame wars. (And, hopefully, not another one here.)

It seems to come down to some people considering Grey an American impostor whose Irish playing style is flawed, and his instructional style too mechanical. And others who think his Irish-American playing is fine, and the wealth of detail in his book is useful. There's no resolving this pie-fight, so you just have to decide for yourself.

June's book seems to arouse no such controversy, and apart from some minor errata, is generally regarded as a good tutorial, perhaps closer to the traditional Irish way of teaching.

If your instructor has a preference, I'd go with that.

Geez. And all I wanna be able to do is get a sound outta the damn thing ...that i don't even have yet.

Yeah, flame "discussions" tend to be a little unhelpful to the beginner whoes current playing style consists of hopefully being able to do a two octave scale without errors. All that other stuff seems a little too deep to worry about at this point. I'm looking to hook up with Pancelticpiper ASAP as an instructor. Eskin highly recommends him and he's right next door city-wise to me.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you and all the others for your replys thus far. I hope to get more.

Best to all

MRS

[eskin]

I agree, don't get too caught up on the book learning, go get a lesson or two from Richard and follow his recommendations.

[crookedtune]

I've got both, and I'll recommend 'Fliuit', as well. It's gentler, less overwhelming, more student-paced, more "in the tradition", (at least in my opinion), and more comfortable overall. I also happen to vastly prefer June's playing style, but again, that's completely subjective.

[O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago]

I do not own 'Fliuit' but I do own Grey's book. All I can say is everything I learned out of it was thrown out after I had started taking lessons. The ornamentation he teaches is just not what a flute player would be caught using in this neck of the woods. Another important factor not brought up yet, if you ever want to pick up the pipes you're better off using a more "traditional" style of ornamentation(likely what June uses) as it's much closer to piping ornamentation.

[Liney Bear]

June is brilliant and absolutely authentic. To follow in her footsteps would be a worthwhile endeavor.

[pancelticpiper]

I haven't seen the McCormack book.

Of the books I've seen, on my desert isle I'd have LE McCullough's Complete Irish Tinwhistle Tutor, and a load of CDs of guys who play in the older traditional style.

[mandoboy]

For those who love the Larsen book, but hate the binding. I personally found the book 100% unusable in its original form. Unless you are willing to use a series of clips, weights and duct tape you can't keep the friggin page opened while you try to practice it. I finally took it to a friend who had some binding equipment and we cut off the binding and punched it and put in a coil binding. Now the book lies flat and easily stays opened to what ever page you like. You could have this done at Kinko's or some similar place.

That said, I really prefer the McCormack tutor. It was more along the lines of just learning the techniques and practicing them in tunes. Practicing scales and pages of cuts and taps is, well, boring.

Another free site is Brother Steve's Tinwhistle Page. http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... index.html
It is a tutor that you can learn a lot from. It is about the whistle, but most of it is applicable to the flute and it is FREE!

Jeff

[ChrisCracknell]

I have both. I cut the Larsen book apart and bound it in three parts with a narrow ring binding that can be opened flat (and even folded flat back on itself) on a music stand. Much better...

I have learnt useful things from both but neither is what I would put in someone's hand who has never played a flute. In fact, I would probably say for the 6 weeks or so before the OP gets to his teacher he'd probably be better sticking with the whistle for tunes and trying to get overtones out of the headjoint on its' own. And do some serious listening.

And if you're ever going to learn the pipes as well then you'll need to do some relearning of your fingering then anyway. Learn to play the flute the best way for the flute.