Filling out my collection -

[sherriev]

Hi all,

As I start playing with other people, it seems I need to get some whistles other than in the key of D.

What keys should I get, in order of helpfulness? If theres a good place to read up on this, I'd appreciate it.

I don't claim I really understand the keys and why they're important.. does it make it so I can play music in other key signatures without having to do a lot of half-holes?

[Byll]

If your goal is Celtic and Folk music... And if you do not mind becoming comfortable with a whistle's secondary key, my humble suggestions are:

C whistle for your second whistle. With your D instrument, you can now cover songs and tunes in D, C, G, and F, plus the relative minor of each. I then might branch out to Bb, with its secondary as Eb, a favorite with many singers. After that,a whistle in the key of A may be useful to you, followed by low F. Low F seems to be one of those keys that just works well, in a whistle... The ubiquitous low D is always right for so many things.

Without getting into the psycho-acoustics of different keys, changing keys allow songs and tunes to be put into the comfort zone for different ranges of instruments and singers. Most instruments play in all keys, and can be termed 'chromatic.' Whistles come from ancient stock, and are diatonic instruments. Each is comfortable in two major and two minor keys. Half-holing can extend each whistle's effectiveness, slightly.

In the end, if one consistently plays in certain keys, a whistle built for that key tends to be the most effective way to go...

The very best to you.
Byll

[Feadoggie]

As I start playing with other people, it seems I need to get some whistles other than in the key of D.

Not necessarily. It depends on what type of music you are going to be playing. If you are playing Irish traditional dance music you can stick with the high D and be quite happy for a long time. If the fiddlers play in E you can take a break.
If you are going to accompany singers then you may want to have some whistles in extra keys handy. What keys depends on the singer and their range/preference. Does that give you the gist of it.

I don't claim I really understand the keys and why they're important.. does it make it so I can play music in other key signatures without having to do a lot of half-holes?

That's pretty much it. The whistle is a diatonic instrument that plays easily in the major key of the bell note and the major key of the fourth as well. So a D whistle plays in the major keys of D and G and their relative minors (Bm and Em). The subject comes up frequently. Here's a previous post on the subject. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70746&p=922415&#p922415 A quick search should give you many more.

Feadoggie

[sherriev]

Okay... So re-reading that thread (I tried to find that one! sticky it!) ... it looks like a C and maybe a E...

[pancelticpiper]

As Feadoggie says, it all depends on which keys you need to play in.

the D whistle plays in D Major and G Major (two sharps and one sharp).

Descending into the flat keys:

the C whistle, C and F (one flat)

Bb whistle: Bb and Eb (two and three flats)

Eb: Eb and Ab (three and four flats)

You might need to play in five or six flats too...

Rising into the sharp keys:

the A whistle, A and D (three and two sharps)

E: E and A (four and three sharps)

B: B and E (five and four sharps)

I've needed all of the above, and more, at various gigs. I even have a C#/Dd whistle for lots of sharps or flats.

[sherriev]

THANK YOU. This explains it better for me. The number of flats, I mean. Its looking like I have a lot of songs in my main book with one or two flats in it - so I'll look at getting those whistles.

[Feadoggie]

Its looking like I have a lot of songs in my main book with one or two flats in it - so I'll look at getting those whistles.

Yes, you could go that route. It actually sounds like you just "need" to buy some more whistles. One question for you ... are they "songs" in your book or"tunes"? We sing the songs and we play the tunes.

changing keys allow songs and tunes to be put into the comfort zone for different ranges of instruments and singers.

So, Byll has explained things quite well. That may explain why your main book shows one or two flats for a piece of music assuming particular instrumentation or the expected range of a vocalists. But you are a whistle player, a high whistle player. What is the expected key and range for a high whistle? The de-facto standard whistle is a high D, right? So if music is presented to be played on a whistle it might be expected to be set in the keys of D or G (caveat: or their relative minor keys or modes using the same notes). What I am suggesting is that a D whistle is good enough for playing most anything. I could suggest the seemingly un-natural act of "transposing" the music written in your book to the keys of D or G but that's a hard slog for many. I am not wholly anti-notation but playing by ear solves a lot of complex problems. If you know a tune (or a song) and can hum it, you should be able to pick the notes out on a D whistle.

Oh, just buy more whistles. It's what we all do eventually. And have fun doing it.

Feadoggie

[sherriev]

Oh fine they're tunes! I'm playing from a contra-dance book mostly - and I need to print out the song book for the celtic session. I think it was geared mostly towards fiddle players, to be honest. The group I've begun playing with has 3 fiddles, two guitars and me... and having me has weirded one of the fiddlers out considerably - shes "hearing things oddly" now.

[Feadoggie]

and having me has weirded one of the fiddlers out considerably - shes "hearing things oddly" now.

That helps a lot - I think. The group's repertoire should determine the keys you need then. Just ask the fiddlers what keys they play the contra-dance tunes in most. That should give you the list of keys in priority order to go shopping for. There's no need to ask the guitar players. They have capos. Have fun shopping and playing.

Feadoggie

[sherriev]

So as I think more and more about this, the more I feel confused. Please bear with me.

Say I have a song with 1 flat... (F, right? guessing here) ... and I need to play. I would pick up my C whistle and play it like that.. the only note id have to change would be the Bb? Everything else would sound true (for example it would sound like a F natural not a F sharp when I do the F fingering).

Or, would the B fingering really sound like a Bb already, and I don't have to change anything?

Hopefully I have this straight in my head.

-Sherrie

[MTGuru]

Say I have a song with 1 flat...(F, right? guessing here)

Yes, F is 1 flat (Bb). To play in F on a C whistle, you would finger it as if in the key of G. The C whistle transposes everything down a whole step (relative to D), so playing in G gets transposed down to concert F. The Bb gets handled automagically.

[sherriev]

All these keys and instruments and transpositions.. just make my brain hurt!

[cboody]

Try this chart. It shows the notes commonly available on whistles in various keys. (no half holes here and only the one cross fingering) Only one octave is shown, but you can always get two on a decent instrument.

Keys of whistle are across the bottom and top (same as the lowest note and highest note) and notes descend in pitch

Eb--Bb--F---C---G---D
D---A-- E---B---F#---C#
Db--Ab--Eb -Bb--F----C
C---G---D--A---E----B
Bb--F---C-- G---D--- A
Ab--Eb--Bb- F---C--- G
G---D---A--E--- B--- F#
F---C---G-- D---A--- E
Eb--Bb--F---C---G---D

If you use the right hand chart you'll see the familiar notes common on the D whistle. If you pick up a Bb whistle and use the exact same fingerings as you did on the D whistle what will come out are the notes of the Bb whistle. This trick allows you to use the whistles as "transposing" instruments. So, you've learned Amazing Grace in G on your D whistle. Someone wants to sing it in Bb. Just pick up the F whistle and play away as though you were playing in G. No fingering differences. Presto! You are playing Amazing Grace in Bb. You've "transposed" the tune. You can learn a set of fingerings for every whistle, but for most of us that would quickly drive us totally insane. (let see...I'm playing my Bb whistle so XXX/XXO is C, but when I grab my F whistle C is XX0/000, but on the G whistle C is XXX/000 and on my D whistle it is 0XX/000 unless my whistle needs a different fingering....well you see the issues) It is much easier to figure out the tune on a D whistle in either D or G (or related modes and minor keys). Then just grab the whistle that gives you the key you need to play it in. That trick is also why many whistle collections will have the tunes written out in G or D (or related modes and minor keys) and then suggest which whistle to use to play in the key either commonly used for the tune or commonly needed for singers.

This will either help or make your head hurt worse. I hope the former.

[JayDoc]

I wonder if it wouldn't be hugely easier, if one wants to read notation, to transpose the sheet music all into essentially the equivalent notes on a D whistle, and then play it on the appropriate key whistle, rather than learning fingering for actual pitches on a number of whistles? We learn fingering not actual pitch, right (at least that's what I do on the whistle, since I'm not in a group)? So I know an B notation will be the top hole covered on the D whistle. Rather than learning the B note in concert pitch would be top 3 holes and next 2 holes covered on an A whistle, etc. wouldn't be a lot easier to take that tune written out in one key and convert into D, so the fingering remains the same, but then play it on an A whistle, so it "sounds" in the right key, e.g. when I play what's written as a "B" in notation on an A whistle, it's a concert pitch F#? Not sure that's making sense as I write it...but the idea is that it seems easier (for folks used to sheet music) to transpose ahead of time and use the old familiar fingerings, than to learn a whole bunch of fingerings for a whole bunch of different key whistles? Forgive me for piping in, as I'm not smart enough musically to say that more clearly.
That said, the keys of whistles mentioned above seem like good ones to branch out into. Even if I'm by myself and it really doesn't matter what key I'm in, each one feels different, somehow.
Best,
Jaydoc

[sherriev]

Oy guys... I'm a very notes-on-a-page type person. I got a C whistle (Thanks Rob!) and took it to the jam... and tried to play along with a F tune - and it was wrong... Am I right in thinking that instead of reading off the page I have to transpose everything down a step?

Please tell me that gets easier over time..