2nd Octave 1st Note Fingering

[RPereira]

Dear whistlers,

Regarding the following fingering:

oxxxxx versus xxxxxx

What is your usual fingering for that note?
Please, if possible, write an explanation.

Thank you for your feedback!

[Elvellon]

I usually finger it vented (oxxxxx) except on some passages like dBeBdB in Sally Gardens. It's especially useful when going Bcd with C sharp or natural.
Different whistles respond in a different way, for example, a sharper or flatter note, or more prone to breaking. Now I play both whistle and flute (trying to keep the same fingerings) and on the flute the unvented D is more 'honking' whereas the vented one is more smoothly flowing in a melody. For example in Bucks of Oranmore (f ffdf efdf) the unvented D provides a nice backbeat.

[fancypiper]

I usually vent (Clarke Original) unless it's a fast jig reel or polka. It all depends upon the whistle and the tune needs. The note seems to have more "color" vented than unvented.

[Hotblack]

I play it unvented all the time as I prefer to half-hole the Cnat. It just means I have to be careful with my breath control to get it right.

On my Shaw D I have to play it vented as it's very difficult to control unvented.

[whistle1000]

I use both depending on the tune and the ornament. You will need it "vented" in order to get the D to roll/cran. This is a great ornament and can only be achieved by venting the hole. IMVHP. Practice both.

[Mr.Gumby]

This is a great ornament and can only be achieved by venting the hole

I don't think you'll find that holds true for all whistles and it certainly isn't true for any of the whistles I own. Mind you, I think you're better off always venting D'.

[R Small]

I rarely vent the middle D. On my whistles (mostly Susatos and Brackers) unvented D is a fairly strong and stable note so there's no need to vent it. And leaving the first hole covered makes the fingering easier and faster.

[MTGuru]

I confess to being a non-venter. I choose whistles where the practical difference is nil or minimal. But examining my playing, there are two cases when I do consistently vent:

1. Approaching d from c or c# below, when the first finger is already off the hole.

2. Sitting on the d for any length of time, or breath-pushing the d.

Occasionally I do practice forcing myself to always vent d ... imagining that I'm playing for some hyper-fussy fleadh judge. The goal is to make sure that I can vent if I want to, and that the choice to vent or not is my choice and not a limitation of my technique born out of automatic finger habits.

This is a great ornament and can only be achieved by venting the hole

I don't think you'll find that holds true for all whistles and it certainly isn't true for any of the whistles I own. Mind you, I think you're better off always venting D'.

Yes ... In fact, if you think of the cran as a series of upper cuts, then only the non-vented d cran does that (except popping T3 if you do a "full" cran). The vented lower cut cran usually strikes my ear as too jarring, but that's just a personal aesthetic choice.

[whistle1000]

I guess that I should have not said "the only way". Yes you can roll/cran unvented. My only point was the middle D roll. The famous Sean Ryan ornament. The toughest ornament in my opinion. I was taught this ornament by one of his students. An all Ireland champ by the way. I was warned that it would take maybe years to master but once you have it, you will have it forever. It took a while but I'm glad that I now have this ornament. While venting the middle D you raise and lower you 3rd finger G A G. Then raise and lower the 4th finger F# G F#. Then you raise and lower your 5th finger. E F# E. Do this while venting the D. Practice it very slowly but keep in mind that it has to be done quite quickly in order to "roll" the middle D. This is an awesome ornament and it sometimes replaces the common run up from B C middle D ornament. Try this vented and unvented. It is almost impossible to make it sound good when unvented. This is what I meant. You are right Guru, one will not win the All Ireland if they don't vent the middle D as I was warned that the judges will look for it. Keep in mind that this is maybe the toughest ornament of all. Be patient and you will be very happy to have it in your arsenal of ornaments. The biggest example of this ornament, I find, would be the middle D ornaments in " Andy Renwick's ferret" but it has it place in many tunes. Once you have it you will be using it all the time and switching from vented to unvented without even realising it. They both have their place! By the way, Does anyone play " A R's F". If so do you know the origin of the tune? It's pretty funny! I have first hand knowledge of it. I will relay the story later but I am curious of other people's versions of the story.

PLAH

[Mr.Gumby]

Your description isn't quite clear, but you seem to describe three cuts over a vented D.

That's a standard cran.

[whistle1000]

You are right Mr. Gumby, the description isn't quite clear. I was confusing myself while writing it! Te He He! I knew that someone would call me on it. I was going to post again today to explain a little better. I just play and I am not familiar with alot of the "technical" stuff regarding the whistle. Yes it is 3 cuts over a vented D. Lift and raise finger on G hole then lift and raise finger on F# hole then lift and raise finger on E hole keeping in mind that all holes remain covered except the one that you are raising and except the vent hole obviously. If this is a cran then that's good to know. I thought that a cran was only done with 2 cuts on a note. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I do not want to mislead or confuse people hear. That being said, If that D is not vented, that ornament is pretty hard to get. I practice it both ways and it is definitely not the same unvented. Do you play this unvented? I do cran the low D, but only with 2 cuts over the note, F# and E holes. That's how I was taught to play that note. I willl try my crans with 3 cuts instead of 2. As we all know, there are many ways to experiment with fingering ornaments but it is certainly nice to have set fingering to practice. I hope that this is less confusing.

PLAH

[Mr.Gumby]

If that D is not vented, that ornament is pretty hard to get

When your cuts are clean and articulate, it isn't. But a with all d' s the tone is better vented.

A cran can be two to four cuts, depending on the context.

[highwood]

On the three whistles I tried a cran on the second octave d there was no different in ease of 'getting it' but it sounded different vented versus unvented - vented the pitch goes down, unvented it goes up - just another choice. edit: I just reread MTGuru's post and realized he already mentioned this fact.

Also the tone vented v. unvented depends on the whistle - on one whistle the pitch was different, higher vented (and in tune, so definitely preferable) - one whistle it was a little clearer vented - and on one venting made virtually no difference.

I play my d's vented. Probably with exceptions of course - can't think of an example though.

[whistle1000]

I guess that I have to work on the cleaniness and articulation of my cuts. As good as I am, there's always room for improvement. I very rarely cran, usually only the bottom and middle D. I'm curious, how common is the cran for the whistle? In my experience, with various players, it rarely is discussed if at all. Am I missing something here? I know that it is a piping technique but I'm curious as to how common it really is with the whistle or flute for that matter. I feel that I may be missing out. If so, it just gives me more reason to practice!

PLAH

[MTGuru]

Does anyone play " A R's F". If so do you know the origin of the tune? It's pretty funny! I have first hand knowledge of it. I will relay the story later

So are you going to keep us in suspense?