Crazy idea....

[gerardo1000]

What happens if I buy an ultra-cheap 12 string guitar, take out the first and the last pair of strings, and re-string it with 8 mando-cello strings ? (Of course, widening the nut slots).
The overall tension of the strings will be around 126 kilos as opposed to 115 kilos for 12 guitar strings,
so tension shouldn't be a problem. Yes, the neck will be too wide, but then you cannot have everything.
This idea came to my mind because I would like to buy a mandocello but I never played one, and they are very expensive (over 1500 dollars).
In this way I can get a cheaply made "mandocello" and understand if I like the instrument, before deciding to invest so much money in a real mandocello.
Has anyone tried this ? Thank you for your advise.

[Tim2723]

Assuming you do the work yourself it sounds like a reasonable way to explore the mandocello concept. As you said, it wouldn't be perfect, but it might well be enough to let you make up your mind about a real one. I think if I were to do that I would actually use a decent 12-string guitar, since I could then put it back to rights and have a nice twelver in the stable. I haven't had a 12-string around in a long while. I'd probably keep the strings close together to replicate the feel of the mandocello's string plane, but cluster them to the treble side (leave the 'extra' fretboard width toward the bass, unused). It would put uneven tension on the top, but for brief forays into the experimental world it shouldn't do any permanent damage. You could also tune a half-tone flat to reduce tensions while still getting the feel of a 'cello. Just substituting a mandocello string set might not do the job, so be prepared to use single strings of appropriate gauge. It will still work to give you the feel of things.

I was lucky enough to get to try an actual mandocello (and a mandobass too!) and learned that neither was a good instrument for me, so I'm in favor of experimenting before investing huge bucks.

[Thomaston]

It's not a bad way to see how you like a certain tuning, at the very least. I wanted to get a rough idea of how a 5-course bouzouki/cittern would work, but I only had a 6-string, so I used the appropriate gauges to give myself DGDAD, leaving the bottom string slot (i.e. the one closest to my head) empty.

[mutepointe]

Do you have any friends with a spare 12 string who would let you borrow their 12 string for this experiment? If they let you borrow their guitar for awhile, you could replace their strings for them when you're done and have very little invested in this experiment.

[kkrell]

Do you have any friends with a spare 12 string who would let you borrow their 12 string for this experiment? If they let you borrow their guitar for awhile, you could replace their strings for them when you're done and have very little invested in this experiment.

Hmmm, I have an old Harmony 12-string with a little finish damage.

[Irishthief]

I'm new in string instruments.
Please, can anyone say what's the difference between bousuki and mando-cello?

By the way, i tuned usual guitar like a fiddle recently - and that was quite interesting!

[s1m0n]

I'm new in string instruments.
Please, can anyone say what's the difference between bousuki and mando-cello?

The terms are slippery. No categorical statement about them is always true, but there are some things that are more likely than the reverse.

'Irish' bouzoukis are more likely to be used as a rhythm/accompaniment instrument, playing chords rather than melodies. There are a number of common tunings, from GDAE an octave below mandolin or violin, and including 'open' tuned variants like GDAD, GDGD and ADAD. Four courses are commoner than five. Scale length is close that of a modern guitar, (25", off the top of my head, IIRC)

Mandocello, on the other hand, is a term initially coined by Orville Gibson in the teens of last century. He developed a set of mandolins designed for playing in a mandolin orchestra, a part of the time's mandolin craze. In a MO, mandolins, mandolas and mandocellos replaced the equivalent violin family instruments, usually playing light classical music. The intended tuning was GDAE an octave below mandolin. Gibson's mandocellos had a scale length a little longer than standard guitar scale - 27" or so.

In modern use, however, a mandocello is a little more likely to be playing melody (or counter-melody) than a bouzouki, and is a bit less likely to be blasting out chords. Today's mandocellos might or might not have a scale length similar to Gibson's; some are shorter, in the 22" to 24" range. These are also often called octave mandolins. The terminology also differs between europe and america. American mandocello is often the equivalent of a european mandola.

[Irishthief]

Thank you!!!

[Tim2723]

With very little to add to Simon's concise response, I'll offer that the 10-string model is sometimes called a cittern, although with an equal degree of uncertainty and confusion. The bouzouki also most often, but not always, has its lowest courses tuned in octaves. That is, two strings of a pair tuned an octave apart as on the twelve-string guitar. Few things in the musical world are more involved and confused than the naming of the mandolin family. As Simon mentioned, the American terms are a bit easier to manage, as they were coined by Orville Gibson early in the 20th century. He built four primary sizes of mandolin to emulate the violin family: The mandolin, mandola, mandocello, and mandobass (n. sometimes mandobasso). The European counterparts are not always equivalent in size, scale, tuning, or nomenclature. Welcome to the bewildering world of the mandolin!

[s1m0n]

The only irish musician I know of with a genuine teens Gibson mandocello is Sean Tyrrell.

[a.proszynski]

It is not a crazy. I just have bought 12 string guitar (with broken head unfortunatelly) and I'll try to rebuild it for bouzouki. I'll let you know when I'll finish it. Please see this: http://irish-bouzouki.blogspot.com/2007 ... zouki.html

[s1m0n]

You might want to check out this thread at the mandolin cafe. If you can find an old archtop tenor guitar, the floating bridge and narrower neck make conversion all the easier. A floating bridge is the right sound for all the mandoids, anyway.

[fyffer]

I'm new posting in this forum, but I thought I'd add my $0.02.

I like this idea. I have two 12-strings (both cheap), and I may try this as well.
Can someone suggest gauges for the strings? I'd probably want to tune Gg Dd aa ee.

Also, instead of ignoring the first and last pairs of string locations (thus leaving big gaps on either side of the fretboard), why not string like this instead (pardon the crude ASCII-art):

||o||oo||o|| (with the "o" indicating, hopefully obviously, the "empty" part)

This gives you some space between the courses (a larger one between 2 and 3) and may be nicer to even out the tension.

Just a thought.

[a.proszynski]

I hope I'll finish convert my 12 string guitar to bouzouki next week. I'll send some photos of course

[s1m0n]

Playing on the lower courses is likely to be easier on your fingers if you're trying to play melody, and it's least likely to give you habits you'll need to lose if you get an 8-stringer later. As for tension, why not google for an online strine tension calculator, and figure out what you have to put on the top course to equal the tension of the two bass courses (ie, when strung as a guitar) and then string it up something like DD -- Gg Dd aa ee or DD -- Gg Dd aa dd? That keeps to restring to the same tension the neck's built for, and isn't likely to harm or twist it, assuming the 2 top tuners will handle double tension. You can muffle, mute, or play the extra course or simply tune it up and leave it to resonate sympathetically like a harp-guitar.