Elder flute advice please! I'm so close!

[Stanleythecat]

AAAAAAgh!

Ok so one worked and one didn't!!!! The thinner one didn't make the grade, Damn! Thought I understood the principles but just can't seem to get it!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49911337@N ... 024764263/

Any thoughts on where I might be going wrong!!!

not after concert quality but to get a consistent note would be nice.

thanks

Leo

Ps Sorry if this appears at all abrupt, I'm one finger typing with a freshly snoozing 3 week old on the other arm!

[Tommy]

Hmmmmmmmmm........... great pictures.

Looks like all the tone holes are the same size?

[Stanleythecat]

Hmmmmmmmmm........... great pictures.

Looks like all the tone holes are the same size?

Thanks for replying!

I wasn't too worried about the holes at the moment, I just seem to have real problems with the fipple. The larger of the two whistles works well, really pleased with it, but the thinner one is almost exactly the same and I could only get a short weak note. As it was the lowest I thought I would just press on with some random holes anyway. I'm not too precious about them at the moment as in lieu of knowledge and any training I have to try anything I can!

regards

Leo

[pipsqueak]

Isn't the windway a little short? Maybe you could try with a slightly longer fipple and windway, making the window slightly smaller?

[Impempe]

From the pics, it looks like your windows are too long. Try shortening the distance between the windway and the blade and maybe widening the blade and windway for more volume. Make sure the plug lines up with the top of the windway as much as possible. Look at the low tech whistle site for working measurements, it will get you into the ball park. Difficult to see from the pics what is happening with the position of the blade in relation to the windway. Nice wood.

[Stanleythecat]

From the pics, it looks like your windows are too long. Try shortening the distance between the windway and the blade and maybe widening the blade and windway for more volume. Make sure the plug lines up with the top of the windway as much as possible. Look at the low tech whistle site for working measurements, it will get you into the ball park. Difficult to see from the pics what is happening with the position of the blade in relation to the windway. Nice wood.

Thanks (Both) for getting back to me. Funnily enough the one that works has been accused of being quite loud?! I have looked at the low tech whistle site and sort of adapted my design (glued on a separate windway ceiling so I could use a round fipple block (plug) and and that would correspond with the curve in the blade).

The windway probably is a little short at approx 15mm.

However, when looking at the plug I moved it about and got the best note with it proud of the windway, could this be symptomatic of something else? Also when I move the plug closer to the blade I lose the note and this seems to be (in this instance) the optimal place distance, if I move it again further away it loses its note again.

Sorry I am a real novice so I really appreciate the advice.

As I think I said before, because I am using naturally hollowed wood there are perhaps a few more additional variables to consider but I would really like to understand what makes a success and failure rather than clutching at straws each time!

Leo

[brewerpaul]

I was just gonna say the same things as Impepe.
Where did you find the information on making this type of whistle?
I have a really nice Czech elder flute. It's windway does not have what appears to be a separate roof glued onto it. Yours would be simpler to make though.

[Stanleythecat]

I was just gonna say the same things as Impepe.
Where did you find the information on making this type of whistle?
I have a really nice Czech elder flute. It's windway does not have what appears to be a separate roof glued onto it. Yours would be simpler to make though.

Thanks Brewerpaul

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any information on how to make this kind of one piece flute anywhere so adapted the pvc simple flute/whistle design to a piece of elder.

I think I said before in another thread that my drive to do this is for a mental health project we have at one of our woodland sites. We have a variety of crafts and natural materials to hand and I hoped that with relatively minimal kit we could make playable instruments from Elder which is naturally hollow and seems to lend itself to the role!

I tried with my first few flutes to make it out of one piece but thought I could make things a bit easier with the adaptation, maybe return to the true form later when I get more consistent results... that doesn't feel altogether achievable right now! My confusion lies over the whole fipple set up and the round wood. It's a wet rainy day today so hopefully I can have another go today.

Leo

[brewerpaul]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any information on how to make this kind of one piece flute anywhere so adapted the pvc simple flute/whistle design to a piece of elder.
Leo

Ah, in that case, check out Guido Gonzato's EXCELLENT PVC whistle making site, which has good information on windway and window dimensions:

http://www.ggwhistles.com/howto/index.html

Making one or two out of PVC will help you get a feel for voicing a whistle.

[CarvedTones]

Leo,

I am not far ahead of you and one thing I have found is that I have had to stop tinkering. What I mean by that is that if I get a whistle's fipple to work well by a series of tweaks and adjustments it usually susceptible to sounding bad again from the slightest movement and I can't readily make another like it. I started cutting up my undesirables and just making fipples until I can do it fairly reliably. What is working for me right now is a slightly larger diameter hole (like 1/2" for a 7/16" bore) right up to the start of the window. The lip edge is cut at in the smaller diameter bore. A tight fitting plug just needs a barely sloping ramp. The airway, edge and the bore immediately past the edge must be smooth surfaces. I am not making concert quality like this, but I have been able to make every fipple sound reasonably good on the first try when I do this. Is this optimal? I doubt it. But working from whistles that sound good to try to figure out how to make great sounding ones is more enjoyable than what I was doing trying to make the flat windway channels in the consistent bore design.

[Stanleythecat]

Leo,

I am not far ahead of you and one thing I have found is that I have had to stop tinkering. What I mean by that is that if I get a whistle's fipple to work well by a series of tweaks and adjustments it usually susceptible to sounding bad again from the slightest movement and I can't readily make another like it. I started cutting up my undesirables and just making fipples until I can do it fairly reliably. What is working for me right now is a slightly larger diameter hole (like 1/2" for a 7/16" bore) right up to the start of the window. The lip edge is cut at in the smaller diameter bore. A tight fitting plug just needs a barely sloping ramp. The airway, edge and the bore immediately past the edge must be smooth surfaces. I am not making concert quality like this, but I have been able to make every fipple sound reasonably good on the first try when I do this. Is this optimal? I doubt it. But working from whistles that sound good to try to figure out how to make great sounding ones is more enjoyable than what I was doing trying to make the flat windway channels in the consistent bore design.

Thanks Andy

I have to confess that I have had far from reliable results with my fipple anyway so I really wish I had some success to tinker with. I thought I had a sure fire whistle yesterday, I spent much more time getting things more precise (despite using naturally found materials), I made a longer windway than those in the pictures above, I got the fipple working (ish, thought I had two octaves but they dematerialised! damn!) but it really failed at the first hole. I don't seem to be able to get a narrow window, my fipple set up only seems to work with a long window, but even then it's not always clear.

As per my original post, concert grade is not important to me but just to make whistle from Elder in particular. The one success I did make (and I don't really know why it works now; thought I did!!!) was played by a friend of mine in the woods whilst other people were carving and whittling and it was lovely. But the instantaneous failure of my next attempt has left me wondering what to do next. I have been offered by another on the forum to send a failed attempt over to him (plus some Elder for him to use) and he will try to diagnose the problem... however I now only have my original working model!

Leo