efficient bellows

[uilleannfinlander]

capasity vs comfortability,shape vs size,flapper vs other valvetype, leather vs synth.material, wood vs something,
Just some things... good/bad experiments with these.

[uilleannfinlander]

like these come my mind:
http://cowalbagpipes.com/products-page/ ... ne-bellows

[Dionys]

Not that modern technology isn't great, and not that neoprene doesn't work.. but there's something to be said for sticking with the classic set of leather bellows. A well-made leather bellows will get you through quite some time. They might even outlast you. Perhaps a combination of modern and traditional -- using a modern sealant to assist in the sealing of the leather, or of the leather to the wood. That said, I've seen some Leo Rowsome bellows that haven't been 'treated' internally and externally only with a beeswax that were as close to airtight as you get.

[Hans-Joerg]

Here are a few things that I found essential for efficiency in the making of bellows:
- the material doesn´t matter as long as it is sturdy enough, non-elastic and the bellows are pressure-tight.
- you can make any leather 100% pressure tight by putting a layer of sillicone bathroom-seal on it (advice by Pat Sky).
- concerning seasoning afterwards: The best, simplest and cleanest (so far) long term experience I had with fluid latex. I found it quite important that the seasoning is elastic and allows for the occasional stretching of leather. It is a nature product (~caoutchouc) and therefore water-solvent. It helps to make the leather a bit wet beforehand. You can thin latex according to your needs. Several thinner layers of course are better than just one. Give it a day each time to get dry. You get it in these little 100ml bottles (Ebay) which is about enough for 3 bellows. In the end blow some talcum powder into the bellows.
- The volume of the bellows should be sufficient for a full set. If it is bigger than that it again takes too much "out of your elbow".
- you have technically speaking much more strength in your elbow if it is spread fairly wide from your body. A bellows with "a good stroke" to my experience is very important, whereas too big clappers are not very helpful. I don´t think it too farfetched to think a bit in terms of a pedal crank: you have much more strength in the upper quarters. Forget about bellows with a "plopp-effect".

[uilleannfinlander]

yep yep.Rigth size of bellows means good capacity/ amount of air with movements of your arm /elbow in certain time, and U can controll well bags pressure vs reeds.
Not looking hints for sealings etc maintenancestuff , just Your opinnions of good efficient bellows.

[Dionys]

Hans has good advice. Are you looking for a reccomendation for a particular maker? Or simply what to look for? As Hans mentioned, the 'stroke' makes a lot of difference. This, however, can be a personal thing determined by your size, the size of the bellows, shape of you (and bellows), hinge type, et cetera. For example I have a 'smaller' bellows with a beautifully smooth stroke that is ergonomically perfect for me that 'works' (in terms of playability) much better than a larger bellows, no matter how well made. As with pipes, one of the best things to do is go to a piper's meeting/gathering where there will be a variety of bellows for you to try out. There are also a couple of people who specialize in making bellows alone.

[Hans-Joerg]

A question: (I occasionally restore bellows - using the original clappers - wich I often find too small - and making new gussets - creating more volume thus) What do yous think is better?
A - the gusset quite narrow at the hinge or
B - the gusset wider and folded (and stitched) at the hinge
(using sturdy material for both)

[billh]

There are many design considerations in making a set of bellows. Among them:

- small bellows will in general require less elbow force to produce the same bag pressure; however if too small, you'll have to pump faster to feed a full set, which increases the perceived effort.
- in order to fill a bag, the bellows outlet pressure must exceed the bag pressure. Thus a large bellows paddle (or 'clapper' if you prefer) will require more closing force than a small bellows paddle. However you won't need to pump as often.

For a given person/set there is probably an optimum size which results in the minimum perceived effort, somewhere between these extremes. It's a big like low gear versus high gear on a bicycle; too high a gear and the pedals are too hard to turn, but too low a gear and your legs are going round like mad, which is equally tiring.

There is a similar effect that has to do with the length of the bellows from elbow to hinge; longer gives more leverage, but if the bellows is too long it interferes with the mainstock and regulator keys. The fact that a bellows is often 'waisted' relates to the fact that most of the volume of air taken in and expelled comes from the back end of the bellows - a wide front is relatively useless. The front can't be too narrow though, nor can the paddles at the front of the gusset be too close together, otherwise it's hard to attach. In the old stitched bellows this is especially true, as it's hard to stitch such a tight 'nose'. The antique bellows tended to widen a bit at the very front, outside the (stitched) gusset, probably to reduce the amount of twist in the bellows which generally did not have rigid hinges (see below...)

This brings to mind the fact that the arc described by one's elbow is not in a horizontal plane, and in fact describes a 3d path. This has implications for bellows orientation and the use of rigid versus flexible hinges.

If the gusset is too big, the sides of the gusset can collapse inwards on the in-stroke, resulting in lost effort. For much the same reason you want a relatively inelastic material - rubber is poor in this respect. Stiffer leather is good, unless it's so stiff that it impedes closing effort; again, there's a happy medium somewhere in the middle. Too small a gusset restricts movement and requires that "shallow" bellows strokes be made rather than large, steady excursions... however there's no point in allowing a bellows to open farther than a player's arm can easily accommodate.

These considerations, taken together, go a long way towards explaining the "average" size and shape that bellows have had over the years, with occasional exceptions. I don't think it's just conservatism! There's really not that much difference in shape and size between bellows by Coyne, Egan, Rowsome, or for that matter Wooff, Rogge, O'Briain, or Quinn.

- Bill

[Hans-Joerg]

Thanks for that, billh! See, I am very impressed by this piper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBT6gMz3 ... re=related

It is immediately obvious how little that man moves. He seems to be the least moving piper of all (I know). This of couse is due to his technique but I think the absolute perfection of his set (which he always seems to keep in perfect shape) also has to do with it. (cit. BTW (not by him, note) "You can either have a clean set or a working set" ). He seems to have a fairly big, voluminous bellows.
As you wrote (convincingly), however: Volume is not all - but pressure, too. Obviously, the (perfect) set has to be "body tailored" to the piper?

[uilleannfinlander]

well, not made for piping, but any way:
http://www.1920-30.com/toys/things-to-m ... llows.html

[glasba]

like these come my mind:
http://cowalbagpipes.com/products-page/ ... ne-bellows

I had these bellows before I sold everything when I stoped with pipes for 2nd time - I hope I will never stop for 3rd time

Anyway, all I can say is that they were 100% air tight, easy to blow and even more efficient then famous Dow bellows, which I also owned... and the nypren looked and worked just fine... so...mybe It's time we get over opinion, that only old shapes and leather are the keys...

The only things I didn't like was the fact that there was no pads and the green color...

[CHasR]

ive also heard extremely good things about those bellows you mention glasba.

although, the most comfortable, solid, silent, efficient set of bellows Ive been priviliged to have a go at, were made by a French maker (Ruols?) for cabrette. The player who let let me try them used them on several varities of French pipes, and I can not defnintely recall the maker.

they were (are) unique three clapper, wood & leather setup, the inlet (if i recll corectly) was on the waist side rather then the elbow side; the actual intake pointing backwards away from the hinge.

ive never experienced since , a more solid inflation . the ease of these things really allowed greater concentration on the actual music.

[Chris Bayley]

they were (are) unique three clapper, wood & leather setup, the inlet (if i recll corectly) was on the waist side rather then the elbow side; the actual intake pointing backwards away from the hinge.

http://www.cabrette.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=28

There are sections on making the rest of the Cabrette

Chris

[reedmasters]

Great info Chris. There is also a photo of a bellows much like these without the gusset in Oliver Seeler's "Universe of Bagpipes". It's under Czech Republic, Bohemian Bock, 5th photo down.

[CHasR]

http://www.cabrette.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=28

precisely. I cannot be certain the intake on the set I played was in the same place as iis pictured on cabrette.com..however. but these are the genuine article. how well suited they would be for uilleann is up for debate.

reedmasters I have one of those czech type bellows too. the design is far older. but they are rather uncomfortable.
and those "accordion-fold" type bellows are completely useless. at least the one I own is. cant even blow out a match.