whistle for playing medieval music

[littleegg]

I am looking for a whistle that has a tone similiar to a recorder. Any suggestions?
Also, is the Dixon tuneable high D loud enough for sessions and what's the lower register like?
Thanks All,
Greg

[Feadoggie]

I am looking for a whistle that has a tone similiar to a recorder. Any suggestions?

That depends on the "recorder" sound you are after. The quick answer would be a Sweetheart (probably and older model), maybe a Bleazey, a Grinter (if you can find one) or a Heinrich-Adler(discontinued). All of these are wooden. There are of course handmade medieval recorders available from specialist makers. Some say the Susato whistle sounds recorderish possibly because Kelischek also make wide bore Ren recorders with a similar design. They do not sound like any of the recorders I own. What about one of the Adri's Dream recorders from Mollenhauer? There are others I am sure I am not thinking of at the moment.

Also, is the Dixon tuneable high D loud enough for sessions and what's the lower register like?

Again, there are a number of different tunable Dixon high D models available these days. Some quieter than others. I find the wider bore models with the polymer, aluminum and brass finger tubes are loud enough for sessions provided you are not competing with box and pipes. They are certainly loud enough to hear what you are playing, IMO. The first octave is fine too. Dixons can vary a bit so "try before you buy" and find one you like.

Feadoggie

[littleegg]

Hey thanks for the reply. I have looked at some of the medieval recorder reconstructions that are offered by makers but they are pretty pricey for such a limited repertoire and honestly I cannot afford the several hundred dollars fo one, but they are nice. The Adri's dream is cool too, but I have a MAJOR obstacle in that I play the whistle with my right hand on top and the half hole on a recorder.....well you see I'm sure. I am sure I could have one made but here again...money right? I really do no want to relearn everything so...Oh I have 2 of the old Sweethearts in D and you are right,they do have a great "recorder" like sound. I was looking for a C whistle with similiar tone. Do you remember if Sweet made a C in the older model? Thanks again.

Greg

[MTGuru]

The Adri's dream is cool too, but I have a MAJOR obstacle in that I play the whistle with my right hand on top and the half hole on a recorder

Well ... And assuming you're interested in a soprano instrument ...

Get the model with single holes, not split holes. Only one note is affected by the offset B4 hole, the bell C/C#. The low F is playable in tune with t|xxx|xoxo fingering, so that's not an issue. The B3 D/D# hole is easily playable with either hand.

If you insist on access to the low C, you have 2 good choices.

o Just reach across and cover the B4 hole with your pinkie (little finger) when you need it. It's not hard to do. I can play the standard Dream Flute with the left hand on the bottom with little difficulty.

o Have a new left hand B4 hole drilled, and plug the other. This is how medieval recorders were usually configured. There are instrument makers on this board who could do this modification for you on a wood-bodied Dream Flute at very small cost.

In other words, there's no strong reason to let the left-handed issue stop you.

* * * * *

Another idea to consider is a wide-bore 6-hole instrument from Valencian maker Paco Bessó. He offers inexpensive plastic models of flabiols (valencianos y de gralla) and pitos castellanos. The fingering is similar to whistle, with a broader sound you may find appropriate for medieval music. (Note, I haven't personally played these yet).

The Bessó website is currently down for revision, but you can see the old price list here:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:Mk ... en&ct=clnk

[Feadoggie]

Oh I have 2 of the old Sweethearts in D and you are right,they do have a great "recorder" like sound. I was looking for a C whistle with similiar tone. Do you remember if Sweet made a C in the older model?

Well, I do not recall the older model Sweetheart whistle being offered in C bbbuuuttt.....as it happens I discovered that the body from the C folk flute played pretty well mated to the D whistle head. I liked that combination. I had the D whistle in rosewood and bought the C folk flute also in rosewood. So I tried to swap the heads and bodies. It worked! So I ended up with whistles in C and D as well as fifes in C and D. Neato!

So look for a C folk flute. It would again probably need to be a flute from the same era as your whistles. Good luck.

The Adri's dream is cool too, but I have a MAJOR obstacle in that I play the whistle with my right hand on top and the half hole on a recorder.....well you see I'm sure.

Yes, I understand. A whistle is a decent solution then. Hopefully some others here will have more suggestions for you.

Feadoggie

[MikeS]

Ralph Sweet lists one of the old style C whistles on his sale page for $60. I gather, though, that this page is not always 100% up to date. It might be worth giving them a call to see if it's still available.

http://www.sweetheartflute.com/SaleItems.html

[Yuri]

"Another idea to consider is a wide-bore 6-hole instrument from Valencian maker Paco Bessó. He offers inexpensive plastic models of flabiols (valencianos y de gralla) and pitos castellanos. The fingering is similar to whistle, with a broader sound you may find appropriate for medieval music."

I'm not sure whether you mean the flabiol or the pito castallano. The flabiol is not really much like a whistle. For one thing it has two thumbholes, you know. For those Catalans, they are well known for not having enough fingers)
(there really are two thumbholes on the flabiol. The point is, for those not in the know: the flabiol is primarely played as a single-hand instrument, to be accompanied by the other hand playing a percussion of some sort. (Usually a tabor (drum), but can be a string drum as well.) Now, the two lowest holes in this case are left to themselves, and the playing hand (left, usually) plays the thumb, three upper holes, and the second thumbhole; the latter being taken by the upper surface of the pinkie. Yes, it is very tricky. Alternatively, the pipe can be played by thumb/three fingrs on the top, the other thmb+two fingers on the bottom. But this is certainly not a normal whistle setup.
Can't comment on the pito castellano, as I have no idea what that is.

[MTGuru]

The flabiol is not really much like a whistle.

Yes, I understand, Yuri. But the fingering you describe doesn't match the fingering of these Bessó instruments (though they do have top thumb holes).

Flabiol can be a fairly generic term, like whistle. These particular flabiols are intended as practice instruments for the unkeyed dolçaína / xirimita / gralla with full two-handed fingering. Pito also means whistle.

Take a look at the photos and fingering charts, and you'll see what I mean. The fingerings follow the typical recorder / whistle pattern.

Flabiol valenciano
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/producto ... scolar.jpg
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/digitaci ... scolar.jpg

Flabiol de gralla
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/producto ... gralla.jpg
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/digitacion/gralla.jpg

Pinfano aragonés
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/producto ... _mixto.jpg
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/digitacion/pinfano.jpg

Pito castellano
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/producto ... ellano.jpg
http://www.pacobesso.net/grafx/digitacion/pito.jpg

[Yuri]

Ah, I see what you mean.
I was referring to the Catalan flabiol. The reason is, I kinda was (and am) under the impression that when the term "flabiol" is used in English, normally it refers to that one. (Not represented in the above list, by the way) All the ones in the list are either whistles, or in one case more like a recorder. In much the same way, when referring to the innumerable other folk whistles, we don't often use the native term (furulya, dudka, sopilka, etc,etc, there are hundreds.) We simply call them the "Hungarian whistle, Slovak whistle, and so on. You can't really expect anyone to know th name of more than a couple, anyway. Now, with the Catalan flabiol it can't really be called a whistle, because of what I wrote about it above, so when referring to it in English, you are stuck with the native term, since there is no English equivalent.
In short, it was a misunderstanding of the use of the term.

[Yuri]

In fact, now that I actually looked it up, the one I'm referring to has three thumbholes, not two. (I was writing from memory. I don't play it.) The correct way to play it is either one-handed, in the manner of the tabor pipe (though totally different fingering, of course) or two-handed, when the left hand still does everything it does one-handed, but is joined by the right hand playing a couple more notes on the bottom holes. (the first two are semitone holes, both.)
http://www.es-aqui.com/payno/pdf/Flabiol.jpg

[walrii]

You think you're getting a grasp on the subject of fipple flutes; not mastering the topic mind you, just grasping the overview. Then along comes a thread like this. Here I am, splashing in my little bathtub, gazing with satisfaction at the far "horizon" where the water turns to porcelin when MT and Yuri point out the ocean outside the window. Ah well, it would get boring if we ever figured it all out. Thanks for the education, guys.

[Yuri]

Hey, Walrii, I'm still interested in your tusks. To make a coupla whistles out of, you know...

[walrii]

That's been tried. Those who attempted now "sleep with the fishes." I'm rather attached to these tusks.