Specific Thailand traditional music & stuff.

[I.D.10-t]

1 out of 1000 that there is any body out there that knows this stuff, but...

... what kind of scale does traditional Thai music use? Are there simple examples of folk or children's song that show this scale? The khlui seems like a fipple flute that at one time had a membrane, but no longer does, maybe? What was its fingering? How was it played as for the fingering and play style?

Is there a non block Thai flute? Non reed? What scale?

Just wondering, I have still not seen any examples of any of this music.

[Denny]

you could google Thai flute

http://www.thaimusic.net/

There was a local Thai restaurant that had some musicians that played Friday & Saturday nights....flutes (both fipple and side blown) and a bunch of different string things

[crookedtune]

Haven't heard much of that, except for the old chestnut "Thai A Yellow Ribbon".....

[Denny]

oh!!! oh!!! and tie a tie

[I.D.10-t]

you could google Thai flute

http://www.thaimusic.net/

There was a local Thai restaurant that had some musicians that played Friday & Saturday nights....flutes (both fipple and side blown) and a bunch of different string things

Yep, I checked out the wikipedia and google listings, despite the khlui being compared to the shakuhachi on every site, it is (from what I can tell) a block flute, similar to a recorder. In fact, almost every place I looked was a knock off of the Wikipedia article. No mention of scale or traditional music. Also I cannot find if there is other end or side blown flutes without a block.

[MTGuru]

We have at least one Chiffboard member in Thailand:

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=13488

He's interested in local Thai music as well as ITM, so you might PM him for information.

[talasiga]

1 out of 1000 that there is any body out there that knows this stuff, but...

... what kind of scale does traditional Thai music use?
......

I am an ignoramus when it comes to Thai music but
see paragraph 9 from this article
for starters .......

The Thai scale system is...extraordinary. It is not now pentatonic, though supposed to be derived originally from the Javanese system. The scale consists of seven notes which should by right be exactly equidistant from one another; that is, each step is a little less than a semitone and three-quarters. So that they have neither a perfect fourth nor a true fifth in their system, and both their thirds and sixths are between major and minor; and not a single note between a starting note and its octave agrees with any of the notes of the European scale...Their sense of the right relations of the notes of the scale are so highly developed that their musicians can tell by ear directly a note which is not true to their singular theory. Moreover, with this scale, they have developed a kind of musical art in the highest degree complicated and extensive.

Seems like some sort of just intoned deviance from a hexatonic scale
1 2 3 #4 b6 b7 8 as doable on your keyboard.

[talasiga]

.....Seems like some sort of just intoned deviance from a hexatonic scale
1 2 3 #4 b6 b7 8 as doable on your keyboard.

Given that there are some claims of Indian music influence in Thai music history
I would speculate that some reflection of such a raag scale might be found in the South Indian (Carnatic) tradition. I say that because it is more reflective of an Indian music system PRE Persian influence (in contrast to the Hindustani/North Indian) and that is the type of music that historically would have influenced South East Asia.

While all parent scales in both North and South Indian systems involve perfect 5ths (just intoned) there are many raagas that drop the perfect 5th.

I note, from a good reference I have that the Carnatic Raga called
GOPRIYA with intervals 1 2 3 #4 b6 b7 8 is a likely candidate
which notionally comes under the parent scale of RISHABHAPRIYA 1 2 3 #4 5 b6 b7 8.

As I only have experience of Carnatic Music as a listener, this post is largely intellectual speculation intending to be helpful for clues.

For instance, I reckon that if we could find a youtube of Raga Gopriya we would have a good chance of hearing, say, a natural third in it a tad flatter than an ET one but not so flat as to be even a slightly sharpened natural 2nd and ditto phenomenon for the other intervals.

[BigDavy]

Hi talalasiga

I couldn't find anything on raaga gopriya on youtube, but there is one with raaga
rishabhapriya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_vDy8SuXM

While looking for gopriya I found this nice one that I liked - so here it is as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubOHYigXYkw

David

[I.D.10-t]

The Thai scale system is...extraordinary. It is not now pentatonic, though supposed to be derived originally from the Javanese system. The scale consists of seven notes which should by right be exactly equidistant from one another; that is, each step is a little less than a semitone and three-quarters. So that they have neither a perfect fourth nor a true fifth in their system, and both their thirds and sixths are between major and minor; and not a single note between a starting note and its octave agrees with any of the notes of the European scale...Their sense of the right relations of the notes of the scale are so highly developed that their musicians can tell by ear directly a note which is not true to their singular theory. Moreover, with this scale, they have developed a kind of musical art in the highest degree complicated and extensive.

Wasn't this the same as Gregorian chant type of music?

[talasiga]

No, not at all.
Gregorian is pretty much diatonic. Its scales are all, in today's western music theory layout, modes of major scale. The distinction of plagal and authentic modes is academic for us and practical for the singers. At the end of the day all the music of Gregorian falls within 2:2:1:2:2:2:1 intervals relatives.
I don'y even know why you mention Gregorian.

[I.D.10-t]

Poor education on my part, I thought Gregorian music's notes were equally spaced. A quick search shows me otherwise.

[talasiga]

I would suggest actually listening to a range of early plainchant.
Not only Gregorian but those of the Eastern orthodox traditions.
Also medieval sacred composers like Van Bingen.

It will open doors to one aspect of the drone and monphonic sensibility.
One doesn't need to go East for it.
It is there as a vocallic undercurrent informing the soul
of many of the evocative folk traditions of Europe.

[talasiga]

I couldn't find anything on raaga gopriya on youtube, but there is one with raaga
rishabhapriya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_vDy8SuXM

While looking for gopriya I found this nice one that I liked - so here it is as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubOHYigXYkw

Nice but not relevant. The first one is not Rishabhapriya - its just mentioned in the blurb thats all.

[talasiga]

Anyway I feel we are focussing too much on art music of Thailand - most of the stuff in write ups concentrates on court music tradition.

Thailand has folk trad too and this may be more relevant to OP.
There is Mor Lam and Kantrum.

Can we get some youtube examples posted.
My dialup is too slow today to do much.

Can we get some sample of court (high art) music and of each of the folk styles and any others?

I suspect the folk ones will tend to be more pentatonic either relative modes of the major pentatonic or other pentatonic types prevalent in Asia or both.