What is interesting in Eb flutes?

[hydromel89]

I have read on many makers sites that Eb flutes can have bright sound and could be more responsive (I believe Matt Molly uses an Eb flute). But I was (am) wondering how one can play in tune with other instruments actually playing in, say, D major. Wouldn't those flutes be too sharp?
I guess you can use the tuning slide to make a half tone lower but then, why not use a D flute instead?

Cheers,

Pascal.

[Cathy Wilde]

Eb flutes are awesome, IMO: smoother, faster, and much easier to play. However, the general rule of thumb is that other people have to tune up their instruments to play with an Eb flute. So to play an Eb flute in a group, you have to be good enough to be worth tuning up for, or the group itself has to decide it likes an overall brighter sound (Dervish is an example of this) and proceeds accordingly.

[Nanohedron]

I have read on many makers sites that Eb flutes can have bright sound and could be more responsive (I believe Matt Molly uses an Eb flute). But I was (am) wondering how one can play in tune with other instruments actually playing in, say, D major. Wouldn't those flutes be too sharp?
I guess you can use the tuning slide to make a half tone lower but then, why not use a D flute instead?

Cheers,

Pascal.

If you're playing an Eb stick, then the idea (ITM, anyway) is that everyone - flutes, boxes, fiddles, backup, what have you - is playing in that compass as well, either by outright tuning or adept playing. IOW, the whole shebang are playing up a half step from the normal D compass. You'll hear this on recordings, and there are Eb sessions. Last week I was playing in Eb and the guitarist kindly capoed up for me.

I wouldn't pull an Eb tuning slide so far out as to play in D if I could at all help it: the overall intonation would probably get pretty wonky, I expect (I am shortly going to test this hypothesis now that I have thought of it) but it would also put the slide in a precariously weak position.

[MTGuru]

I guess you can use the tuning slide to make a half tone lower but then, why not use a D flute instead?

Précisement.

Part of the reason Eb may seem brighter and/or more responsive than D is precisely because of the key, not some inherent magic of the instrument. If you pull it out to D, that is more or less defeating the purpose. And, as Nano says, the intonation will likely go to hell. Within each register, the flute will get progressively flatter as you ascend.

[Nanohedron]

I wouldn't pull an Eb tuning slide so far out as to play in D if I could at all help it: the overall intonation would probably get pretty wonky, I expect (I am shortly going to test this hypothesis now that I have thought of it)...

And, as Nano says, the intonation will likely go to hell. Within each register, the flute will get progressively flatter as you ascend.

Yep, that's exactly what happened. Not good.

...but it would also put the slide in a precariously weak position.

I had the tuning slide extended out to at least a full inch. Looked like a mile. Also not good.

[Cathy Wilde]

It doesn't look hugely different, but my Eb flute FEELS much smaller than my D flute. And it's that "feel" that lets me play much more easily.

Wouldn't the shorter length and narrower bore contribute to the brightness too?

Anyway, like the other guys said, no, you don't get a true D scale by pulling an Eb flute HJ out, even when you adjust the tuning cork. You might get a fair D but other notes in the scale would sound progressively more wrong.

However, I just happen to have a flute that straddles the line between D and Eb if you'd like one ... It's not truly in tune in either key!

[NicoMoreno]

My wonderful old high pitch flute (and boy it's a wild one) actually plays better in tune with the slide pulled out about a full inch... Better in tune with itself, and at A=440 too!

The restorer (one Master Hamilton of Cork) reckons that flutes of the era were intended to play over a wider range of pitches, and compromises were made to allow this.

In all the way = almost in Eb, but with the "typical" tuning problems of Rudall type flutes (flat bottom D etc), but also very responsive, bright, and all around fun.

Pulled out an inch = in D, with not as many tuning problems (D is not flat, nothing much wrong except a tendency to be sharper in the second octave), not quite as bright and not quite as responsive.

So yeah... anecdote!

[Nanohedron]

Very interesting experiences being reported, here. Just goes to show that sometimes, as ever, it all depends on the instrument. You have to try and see.

Wouldn't the shorter length and narrower bore contribute to the brightness too?

Now in my case, it's a shorter length but instead a relatively wider bore: I have both a D and Eb body for the same headjoint and foot; the bores are identical but for the length and thus the grade of the inner conical profile. So, with comparable bore dimensions at each end, a shorter length makes my Eb bore relatively wider, all proportions compared to each other on the assembled instrument. If that makes any sense.

I've assumed that this being the case, it accounts for a sense of more volume when I'm playing my Eb setup. It is certainly brighter in any case.

It doesn't look hugely different, but my Eb flute FEELS much smaller than my D flute. And it's that "feel" that lets me play much more easily.

But I think that, for some reason, Eb flutes are in themselves really just plain more responsive, too. Some years back, here, I think someone compared D to a Rolls Royce and Eb to a Lamborghini. Or something like that. I would have to agree.

[I.D.10-t]

Very interesting experiences being reported, here. Just goes to show that sometimes, as ever, it all depends on the instrument. You have to try and see.

Wouldn't the shorter length and narrower bore contribute to the brightness too?

Now in my case, it's a shorter length but instead a relatively wider bore: I have both a D and Eb body for the same headjoint and foot; the bores are identical but for the length and thus the grade of the inner conical profile. So, with comparable bore dimensions at each end, a shorter length makes my Eb bore relatively wider, all proportions compared to each other on the assembled instrument. If that makes any sense.

It might be a compromise, how is the third register? As easy and controllable? Is the bottom D more solid?

[Ben Shaffer]

Hey after all is said and done we are playing the Flute for our own enjoyment and lets face it we are playing by ourselves maybe 90% of the time....so why not make the experience as great as it can be..... so bottom line my McGee Eb GLP is the best Instrument to play in this solo situation, its fun and requires far less effort to play than a D Flute, its got more punch as well. If you are now playing your D Flute about an hour a day, when you get a McGee GLP Eb, you'll be playing double that. If everyone on this list had this McGee Eb Flute, I can tell you the ONLY time you would even pick up a D Flute is when you go to a session. If you don't have a McGee GLP Eb Flute do yourself a favor and order one from Terry. If it doesn't become your favorite Flute within 5 minutes of picking it up, I'll buy you a bottle of Whiskey!
Ben

[jim stone]

Bryan Byrne once mentioned to me that he thinks Eb is the key in which
Irish flutes really play best.

While we're at it, I really like Dave Copley's F flute.

[Doug_Tipple]

I rarely hear anyone talking about flutes in E natural. Why not? It's a great guitar key.

[talasiga]

Doug, this is an Eb topic.

[brotherwind]

They just sound great. Many of my favourite recordings are actually in Eb. If you compare the tracks to the ones in D on one CD they simply stand out by their bright tone. They are lovely.

[Doug_Tipple]

Doug, this is an Eb topic.

Interactive means that the steering wheel is in our hands, allowing us to steer a little off course, if we choose. In the posts immediately before mine, there was mention of D flutes and F flutes. You can learn about the topic Eb flutes by comparing them with close relatives, which is what people were doing with the D flutes. The E flute is the close relative on the other side of the family.