fingering C natural

[chaswagamble]

Although I can play the whistle reasonably well, I cannot play C natural in tune on a D whistle. The fingering charts offer too many possibilities. Can anyone help me to understand why this is such a problem? The simplest fingering would seem to be with just the 2nd and 3rd fingers of the left hand. On what classes of whistles would such a fingering produce an in-tune C natural, with an acceptable tone color?

[caedmon]

Have you tested each fingering option against a tuner to see how close it is?

[fearfaoin]

Although I can play the whistle reasonably well, I cannot play C natural in tune on a D whistle. The fingering charts offer too many possibilities. Can anyone help me to understand why this is such a problem? The simplest fingering would seem to be with just the 2nd and 3rd fingers of the left hand. On what classes of whistles would such a fingering produce an in-tune C natural, with an acceptable tone color?

Every brand is different. Most cheapies need
0xxx0x to get an in-tune Cnat. On many high-end
whistles, you can get it in tune with 0xx000. You
just have to find the one that sounds best on each
whistle you own. That's why there's so many
possibilities. Or you can half-hole. Works on every
whistle!

[MTGuru]

Hi chas, welcome to the Chiff.

Two questions:

1. What whistle are you playing?

2. What do you mean by "in tune"? Hint: It depends on what key/mode you're playing in, the function of the C note in the tune, and which temperament or intonation you're using.

[straycat82]

Although I can play the whistle reasonably well, I cannot play C natural in tune on a D whistle. The fingering charts offer too many possibilities. Can anyone help me to understand why this is such a problem? The simplest fingering would seem to be with just the 2nd and 3rd fingers of the left hand. On what classes of whistles would such a fingering produce an in-tune C natural, with an acceptable tone color?

Using the OXXOOO cross-fingering will produce a weaker-sounding note on just about any whistle. Because of this many have a tendency to overblow that note to get it sounding stronger but that will result in a sharp C (I assumed that you were implying it was sharp). If you haven't considered this already, try easing off of the breath pressure a little bit. If the C note lies, for example, on an 8th note in a reel then it will not be a big deal if it is a little weaker so long as it close to being in tune with the rest of the whistle (just or even). If it is an important note in the tune (eg. it falls on the down beat or lasts longer than an 8th note) then something like OXXXOX might be necessary to bring it to its proper place in the tune. Of course, as was previously mentioned, half-holing is always an option as well (though I do not utilize this in my playing so I cannot offer any advice on it).

[brewerpaul]

I agree with the half hole option. Once you learn it's not hard. Plus, you can adapt the technique to play good G#, Eb,Fnat, etc

[AbraXas]

I agree with straycat82.

I use OXXOOO cross-fingering on all my whistles and my wooden flute, and it's pretty close to being spot on. It's in general all about breath control, but I guess there are some whistles that will require some other cross- fingering.

Half holing is no substitute for a cross-fingered C natural, but it's a really nice alternative sometimes. It all depends on what you are playing, but f.ex in a fast reel or jig, half holing is not a substitute. At least, I have never seen anyone pull it off properly.

So my advise is: Go for the 0XX000 cross fingering, and experiment with half holing. After a while you will know when to use it.

Good luck!

[straycat82]

I believe that Mary Bergin plays her C's half-holed.

[houstonwhistler]

I think that the way that any individual chooses to play the flatted 7th is a subjective matter and up to the personal preference of the player. Simply because someone else plays it a certain way, doesn't mean you have to do it that way, too. Try both ways and stick with (and practice) the one that is most comfortable for you.

[packie]

I use 0xx x0x whenever possible. It slightly flattens the note making it more in tune and it is dead handy to go up to the high D by just dropping the middle finger of the right hand. In fast tunes that quickly pass over the note the two-fingered Cnat is fine and the half-hole is ideal for adding a bit of nyah in some tunes. All good fingerings to have in your arsenal.

[GordonH]

Half holing is often just rolling the whistle round in your fingers rather than trying to put the pad of your finger down on half a hole.

[Mitch]

C-Nat is a very ellusive item!

It all depends on what key and mode you are playing - and what drone!

If you are playing C-Nat as part of the major key of G .. then it ought to be a little flat. If playing in D, then it can be a little sharp.

So it is always a good idea to find a few diferent ways of getting it!

For myself - I always play C-nat with OXX OXX IF it is a featured note in the tune! Otherwise I play it OXX OO for passing notes and drop my breath a little if it sounds odd. ALl the cheap whistles I have tried work well using this method. The advantage of OXX OXX is that you can use your index fingers of both hands to execute a cut, tap or roll effortlessly! (cut is oxx Xxx, tap is Xxx oxx .. with other finger schemes it requires a lttle more practice.
This helps a lot with wider bore whistles and with the deeper chimney space on wooden whisltes - where IF you make OXX OOO as the even temper C-Nat then the C# will be flat and the upper octave A, B and C# will also be flat.

I respect the Generation and Feadog companies for respecting the finnesse in forcing alternate fingerings for C-nat .. after all, these guys did their math, played thier tunes and KNOW what they were doing before they committed fortunes to the design, tooling and machinery that produced these classics!

Now (and I will be marking the replies ) Who can tell me: Why are all mass-prodiced whistles always at least 20-cents sharp off-the-shelf???
( a free Feadog whistle to the contestant who can answer the 2 correct answers!!!!)

(edited to say: yah yah yah - if you live near to me then I can give you the whistle over a paid-by-me coffee at my fave barista in Leura .. but you probably already have one, so the coffee is good anyway ... jest anzer ze kveschun graZSZhooppaaarrrr!!?! @))

[Innocent Bystander]

Half holing is often just rolling the whistle round in your fingers rather than trying to put the pad of your finger down on half a hole.

On some tunes I've found a better effect by bringing the finger near to, but not touching the hole. I'm thinking of D# on a D whistle, on the Air "Crested Hens". It's a lot easier to do than to describe. That's with a piper's grip, though.

[pancelticpiper]

On whistle and flute I usually play it

oxx oox

because I tend to leave the ring finger of the lower hand down for G, A, B, C, and C# as an "anchor".

But that's a tad sharp on my Burke Low D so on that one I often use

oxx xox

which is the usual uilleann fingering.

Every time there's a thread on C natural some people advocate half-holing. I half-hole high C natural because in traditional tunes that note is nearly always preceeded and followed by B and that's the usual traditional way to do it.
But trying to half-hole low C natural wouldn't give one enough dexterity to play many reels up to speed, and doesn't allow C natural to be cut, patted, or rolled.

I give beginners the tune Polly Put The Kettle On to get them used to fingering C natural and "going over the break"

|Cded CAAC | BCdC BGGB | Cded CAAG | EDEG A..B |

|Cded CAAC | BCdC BGGB | CCCA BBBG | EDEG A... |

The CCC being a long roll on C

oxx oox
oxx xxx
oxx oox
xxx oox
oxx oox

I'd like to hear somebody play this tune cleanly and up to speed using the half-holed C natural.

[straycat82]

What about John Sindts whistles? I've not found a decent C on that whistle other than half-holing (which I don't/won't do). I have been playing it with a Feadog tube for the last couple years.