Running out of breath quickly

[BlackFire_]

I just started on my Tipple a few days ago, everything is fine except I tend to run out of breath a lot and quickly.

Any help guys?

[jim stone]

Keep at it. As your embouchure improves you will
use less air. It's like the garden hose that shoots further
if you close off part of the hole with your thumb.
This takes some time and practice but sooner or later
it will come. Also you will get stronger and better
at blowing.

Your experience is widespread. At the beginning people
sometimes even get dizzy.

[segv]

What's your background or frame of reference? The air requirement of the flute is generally higher than that of a whistle. If you're new to the flute, you should expect your embouchure to take a while to become more focused and therefore air-efficient. And if you're new to wind instruments in general, you've got to develop your lung capacity and breathing technique. The simple system flute is an animal in its own right and you need to give yourself time to grow into it. Once you're stuck in one place for several weeks despite of disciplined practice, you'll know that it's time to get help.

[jim stone]

What's your background or frame of reference? The air requirement of the flute is generally higher than that of a whistle. If you're new to the flute, you should expect your embouchure to take a while to become more focused and therefore air-efficient. And if you're new to wind instruments in general, you've got to develop your lung capacity and breathing technique. The simple system flute is an animal in its own right and you need to give yourself time to grow into it. Once you're stuck in one place for several weeks despite of disciplined practice, you'll know that it's time to get help.

Permit me to gently disagree. Once one's embouchure is strong
flute takes no more air than a whistle does, often it take less--though you're quite right about the beginning, which is probably what you have
in mind. Also developing a good enough embouchure to really
reduce wind requirements takes months, though I agree that
the 'running out of air' thing will probably improve sooner.
But patient practice over a long period is definitely
needed to get close to being up to speed.

[BlackFire_]

Thanks, I've just heard somewhere (or read? can't remember, maybe it was a dream...) that beginners are supposed to blow somewhat hard to train their lungs and be able to play at louder volumes? Maybe I've just been blowing too hard.

[Guinness]

And if you're new to wind instruments in general, you've got to develop your lung capacity....

Watch scrawny, hunched over guy do it, especially at the one minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHcDY76a_eY

[Jayhawk]

I'll disagree with Jim that flute takes as little, or less air, than a whistle...if we're talking high D whistle that is - but that's only my opinion and others may disagree. I'd agree that a low whistle uses more air than a flute if you're emouchure is good. However, a lot depends on your playing style.

If you listed to some of the older flute players, they're breathing about every 2 to 4 measures - max. There is nothing wrong with breathing that often although as already mentioned you'll be able to go longer when your embouchure improves. Take more breaths, but the key is you must learn when to breathe within the tune. Breathing can create space and be musical in and of itself when done well. Breathe only when your foot is in the up position when tapping.

Eric

[segv]

I'll disagree with Jim that flute takes as little, or less air, than a whistle...if we're talking high D whistle that is - but that's only my opinion and others may disagree. I'd agree that a low whistle uses more air than a flute if you're emouchure is good.

I was referring to the High-D whistle. This is not just my own experience, but the opinion of people whose fluting and whistling is way ahead of mine. Of course it depends on the model and bore of the whistle, more so perhaps than the model of the flute. Not that it matters greatly, anyway. If you're running out of air "a lot and quickly", you have to find ways to breathe "a lot and quickly" without clobbering the music, and that's a skill whose usefulness does not diminish as air-efficiency increases.

Good luck to you, BlackFire_, and many enjoyable and rewarding hours (weeks, months) with your Tipple.

[jim stone]

I was also talking about high D whistles. I just picked up
the first flute at hand, a Copley D, and tried it again.
My air requirements on the flute are about those
for a gen and an abell D. The flute takes less air
than my Copeland D and more air than
the burke narrow bore aluminum. YMMV.

[Maeloc]

I just started on my Tipple a few days ago, everything is fine except I tend to run out of breath a lot and quickly.

The experts here are quite right; I started two months ago and had exactly the same problem plus dizziness, which seem solved now; just keep at it;
I also found very useful the following threads (this a great forum to be a beginner)

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=61371
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ht=#807780

There were also several other threads in the last months that include great help

Good luck

[Liney Bear]

Permit me to gently disagree. Once one's embouchure is strong flute takes no more air than a whistle does...

I gently disagree with your gentle disagreement!

In spite of what Seamus Egan and others have found true for themselves, it may just be that everyone's breath requirements, lung capacity, and abilities are just too different to generalize.

I think of myself as a pretty strong, efficient blower with a firm tone on the flute. However, I can play a two part jig on the whistle with repeats with not more than two breaths in most cases, roughly 16 bars per breath. On the flute, I can't usually get more than 8 bars without a breath.

I think to say that flute takes as much or less wind as whistle is kind of a one size fits all approach and in reality, it varies from person to person.

[Denny]

dang LB, I wish you'd let Jimmy generalize!

You realize that if you don't he's gonna come up with an other of those 500+ word dissertations on the subject and paste it into each newb thread about breath....

Do we want that?

[jim stone]

OK, let's not generalize. So the claim with which I (gently)
disagreed 'Flute generally requires more air than the whistle'
is to be gently rejected. I find it hard to believe
that I'm at all exceptional on the flute (though obviously
two hours a day for more than five years (blessed
retirement)) has doubtless helped), so we can
gently say that for a good number of people who have played
a long while, flute takes no more air than a d whistle,
and (for some d whistles) less.

[Denny]

I think that tellin' the new ones that it takes less is generally a good idea.

Maybe it will not take less, for them, in the long run but it gets them focused on ..... on ..... well, focusing.


Oh, and the bit about the 2nd octave being easier. As long as they're thinking that it's hard they're gonna make it hard.

If they're still around in a few years they'll get over it.
ah, generally

[Jayhawk]

I just ran outside for a break at work because I wanted to see how long I could play my 2 piece Clare whistle without needing to take a breath, and I can match LB's 16 bars on one breath but it was not comfortable. So, I tried playing for long phrasing and found I could do 12 to 14 bars comfortably, but I didn't like the sound as much as when I take breaths a little more frequently because it's not always about length but how you use it...and the space a breath creates is highly musical if done right.

On flute, I tend to breath somewhere in the 4 to 6 bar range (although it can be shorter if the breath creates a nice bit of emphasis or space in a tune).

Now, I know I'm not nearly as good a player as Liney Bear, and I don't get to practice as much as Jim...but I get by.

I think the key point in my post was worry less about how long you can go between breaths, worry not about being short of wind, and learn how to breath properly and you'll be OK even if you're breathing every 2 bars. I'd like to claim that I'm the author of that tidbit, but my teacher had to beat me about the ears to get this point to sink in...and I've been a much better player since I truly took this lesson to heart.

Eric

PS - it's 79 degrees in KC, with what feels like no humidity - for KC in August, this is heaven. My thanks to all the above posters who led me to escape my cube, play some whistle, and allowed me to insert 15 minutes of heaven into my day.