Overton low D (Goldie) clogging problem

scoutcow · Post by **scoutcow** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:47 am

I have an Overton low D whistle made by C. Goldie april 2008.
It's a really good whistle and I really like it, but I have a problem with it with clogging. I warm it up everytime before I play, but I can't even play one tune on it and it gets clogged again. I can still play it, but it just sounds a bit muted and not that beautiful Overton sound anymore. I've tried an anti condensation fluid, especially made for recorders, works for all woodwinds it says. It's "La Tromba, Anti-Heiser, for all Woodwind Instruments" ( http://www.mainmusic.nl/persit.asp?styp ... e=8287.jpg )
I don't know if it's duponol or something like it or just something totaly different that doesn't work on aluminium whistles.
I also tried cleaning the whole whistle with soapy water, especially the mouthpiece, but that doesn't seem to work either.
Is there something else that could help?

ahogrelius · Post by **ahogrelius** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:29 am

I had the same problem with my OS Chieftain but Duponol solved the problem for me. Your mileage may vary though...

Cheers,
Anders

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:41 am

If it is a tunable whistle? Try turning the head upside down.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:16 am

My experience with Overton whistles over the years (I own quite a few) is that that clogging problems tend to stem from players who are new to the whistles not blowing forcefully enough when they play. There can be some clogging of a cold whistle in the first few minutes of playing, but once the whistle is warmed up, you shouldn't have problems unless you are playing a bit too timidly. Try playing a bit more forcefully, I think you'll find it makes a big difference.

Loren

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:46 am

...not blowing forcefully enough when they play...

When I did have my Overtons (they weren't low D), I seem to recall that they required less breath pressure and an open throat to get the best tone. This also seemed to reduce clogging.

I also suggest: cleaning out the windway with a piece of folded paper or a thin piece of cardboard; minimizing tonguing articulation; and sucking back the condensation between phrases (yes it's yucky but it works).

You could always have your saliva glands removed.

scoutcow · Post by **scoutcow** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:36 pm

I allready tried that with a piece of paper and also rinsing it out with (soapy) warm water, but it didn't seem to help.
I also like whistles with high backpressure, so I'm almost sure I'm blowing with enough force.
I just tried cleaning the windway out with a piece of an old credit card and rinsed it out with water after that. It's too late to test it, so I'll tell you tomorrow how it goes.
I played the whistle outside before I bought it, played it for about an hour or so (shop owner was glad I did that so that everyone could see his whistles were really playable, he gave me almost every whistle he had to play it to interested people

) But even though it was cold outside, after I warmed it up, I hadn't had very much problems with clogging there and it seemed to get worse. I hope cleaning out with the credit card helps, maybe the paper was too 'soft' to clean it out.
I also received a very helpful e-mail from Brigitte with some tips and if that doesn't help I can call Colin and ask him what could be wrong.

One thing I saw (from the beginning) was that it looks like the fipple isn't 100% straight:

ahogrelius · Post by **ahogrelius** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:45 pm

scoutcow wrote: One thing I saw (from the beginning) was that it looks like the fipple isn't 100% straight:

It doesn't matter as long as the windway is straight and it looks to me like yours is OK.

Cheers,
Anders

scoutcow · Post by **scoutcow** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:57 pm

I played it for a bit (just the lowest notes in the first octave so it doesnt make that much noise) and it looks like it doesn't clog anymore, but I'll try it again tomorrow morning.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:16 pm

On any metal whistle that tends to clog, try warming the head / fipple of the whistle in your hands for a few minutes before you first play.

When your warm, moisture-laden air from your mouth hits cold metal, water instantly condenses on the surface of the metal windway.

If the metal is warmed, however, significantly less water will condense on it.

Also, I've found that pretty much all whistles, from the least expensive on up, tend to play better when warm.

--James

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:31 pm

I've always wondered if clogging might worsen over time just because metal oxidation might provide nucleation sites for droplet formation. However I'm making the assumption that freshly machined aluminum or brass have better whetting properties.

ahogrelius · Post by **ahogrelius** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:50 am

Guinness wrote:I've always wondered if clogging might worsen over time just because metal oxidation might provide nucleation sites for droplet formation. However I'm making the assumption that freshly machined aluminum or brass have better whetting properties.

It may well get worse as the surface oxidizes but aluminum would probably not be affected as it already will have an oxide layer that will protect it from further oxidation. The only thing that will dissolve the oxide layer and make it oxidize further would be if your saliva has an extremely high or low pH which is unlikely...

Brass will oxidize though so if someone figures out a way to polish the windway without scratching it it would surely help if you have an all-brass whistle. That's another good reason to build the whistles like Mike Burke does, without any brass in there you won't get any oxidation...

Cheers,
Anders

Brigitte · Post by **Brigitte** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:09 am

The "clogging problem" can be limited and from what I see eliminated by some simple routines. Usually if someone warms the whistle up before playing, which is no big job and done quickly by just a few times blowing hard into the whistle, there is little problems if any, also blowing hard after a tune is played will clear out. (dont forget to put the finger over the vent when doing this)

There is a "starting clogging problem" that we see, that is if someone is new to the whistle or low whistle (as well as the Overton themselves) learning the breath control solves it, playing with confidence and blowing with the force the instrument askes for usually solves this... this though is the rarest occassion.

More often clogging we see comes over time and it is a slow process in which the instrument slowly "developes" sound and playability changes and that is simply because the windway is getting dirty. Having a whistle open on a stand head up, dust can sneak in. Eating sweets or crisps and the likes at the weekly session, drinking sugary stuff, smoking while playing all this builds up a thin layer of "I do not want to know but it looks horrible when it gets cleaned out" inside the windway.

So I always recommend, warm up, play with confidence as the air going through the windway normally clears out the water in there and like warming up, blowing out at the end of each tune. Avoid eating when playing or sugary drinks and if you think the behaviour is changing have a look into the windway if you can see anything unusual. Clean it occassionally when you think it is changed and you are not happy with the changes....

....and last recommendation towards a habbit I sometimes see and due to what I have seen coming out of whistles when they come for an overhaul. Try to not suck it empty but retrain yourselve and use the second or so that takes to "blow it empty if needed", your spouse will appreciate it; when I see someone sucking their whistles especially older ones or not so clean looking ones in general, not only my mind starts revolting....

Hope this helps
Brigitte

Brigitte

NoMattch · Post by **NoMattch** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:08 am

That's funny, Brigitte! I get the feeling you don't like people sucking through whistles.

How about drinking through them like a straw?

Hope all is well in DE...nice win yesterday!
Take care,
Matt

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:42 pm

I've used the "waxed dental floss" windway treatment on my Overtons (high and low D) with positive results. Duponol seems less effective on these.

scoutcow · Post by **scoutcow** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:21 am

Tried cleaning it with a piece of cotton with soap and also tried the waxed dental floss trick, but it doesn't seem to help. This is how it looks like after playing for just a minute: