big reeds, small reeds

[ttoberer]

Ive heard people talk about large "paddle" head reeds and am curious to learn more. pat skys description of liam oflynns reed makes it sound like somthing worth tying (largest, ugliest, best sounding and easiest to play), but to my knowledge there isnt any published method for making this style reed, maybe there is a good reason for this? would this also be like the style of reed paddy keenan uses? to me it would seem difficult to make a reed so large, play up to pitch, what is the secret here? did leo rowesome use this style of reed often? there are some dimensions of the oflynn reed on dayes website, or was, and ive tried a few times in the past to make one and never had anything close to success. on the other end of the spctrum there are tim brittons reeds which are tiny. his chanter is stretched out to close to 15 in. I believe so this makes sense. my reeds are getting better now that im staying very close to the common 1/2 in head 3 1/4 long reed. I may venture slightly wider or slightly narrower on the head width, baby steps at a time and see where I end up, or maybe just settle with this standard because it seems to work.

[tansy]

I've got a C chanter that will play just about any size reed you make, from very narrow, less than 3/8ths up to 7/16ths. The D chanter seems to like it a fairly strict 1/2".

[PJ]

... maybe there is a good reason for this?

If it's the original Rowsome reed you're referring to, the absence of any writings is probably due to the fact that Leo Rowsome was quite guarded in respect to his craft. I understand that he didn't invite many people to his workshop. Conversely, he seems to have been exceedingly generous with teaching and tunes.

[billh]

I... on the other end of the spctrum there are tim brittons reeds which are tiny. his chanter is stretched out to close to 15 in. I believe so this makes sense. )

You seem to imply that narrow heads work best/only with longer chanters. I do not believe this is the case - it may be true that shorter reeds suit longer chanters, but BK uses narrow reed heads for Rowsome chanters which are considerably shorter than the chanters many contemporary makers are producing.

If the reed head is wide, then it follows that in order to preserve relative tuning of the octaves it needs either extra stiffness, a shallow profile (i.e. not thick at the eye), a smaller staple, or some combination of the above.

Bill

[chanterdan]

I have a reed iam playing now 15mm wide, plays nice,i love it.

[ttoberer]

bill, whan you say smaller staple, do you mean shorter or narrower? do narrower staples play flatter? talking about fitting reeds to chanters, I was only implying that smaller reeds in general play sharper. shorter equals sharper, and narrower head usually means sharper. it never seems to be that simple i guess. thinking back to somthing somone else pointed out, cant remember who or where I read it, is that somtimes reeds can act acoustically larger or smaller then there obvious dimensions. this may account for heavily scraped smaller reeds playing flatter than larger stiffer reeds. so the vibrational volume of the reed is actually larger when it is scraped more, which explains why shaving reeds more makes them flatter. this makes me think that to make larger reed blades, softer cane would allow you to scrape the reed less and retain enough stiffness to keep the reed up to pitch and if wider staple means sharper this would help also%$#.may have just answered my own question there.??? understanding this and controlling it to some degree is a skill Im still trying to acquire. its really amazing how much is going on in these reeds!

[billh]

When I say "smaller" staple I mean smaller in diameter, i.e. narrower. Because of uncertainties in insertion depth, reed head length, etc. I think it makes more sense, where staple size is concerned, to think of the staple as the determinant of relative octave tuning. A bigger staple diameter yields wider octaves, a smaller diameter staple gives 'narrower' octaves (i.e. 2nd octave flatter relative to 1st). This octave tuning is what usually forces the matter of what staple size to use... unless you compensate by changing the head width significantly. (Thus BK's comments about wide reed heads)

Yes, a more flexible head "acts" acoustically larger.

While it may seem complicated, I think it can mostly be understood in terms of inner volume over distance (the staple and reed forming the top part of the bore), and in terms of vibrating rate of the lips (sometimes referred to by reed makers as 'head velocity'). Stiffer reeds or less distance between the lips means faster head velocity, the converse is also true.

best regards,

Bill

[ttoberer]

I was just thinking about how in a previous post ive inquired to see if anyone can pipnpoint the cause or causes of the bottom D gurgle ( somtimes low e gurgle and very difficult lower octave as well) , which has been a steady annoying problem for me. I was thinking that maybe the "vibrational velocity of the lips" or head velocity may be a main culprit. ive noticed I can actually hear the velocity of the gurgle change as I adjust the reed. the slower it gets, the closer to hard D. another comment about the gurgle, I have mostly cured it with a small bit of tape on a guitar string about 3/4 in below the throat. I might be grinding off a bit of the reamer there for next time. just thinking out loud.

[stew]

I find once you get to the 14.20mm width of a concert D reed you start getting problems with the tuning, I make my reeds around the 13.70mm-14.00mm width with a slight side taper,I prefer a wide reed I find they play a little easier than a narrow reed head, I have seen wider shovel reeds with a wider head in some older chanters but they usually have a slightly larger staple to help with the tuning, the thing is in this game you never stop learning, you also see some very strange things used for tuning chanters and regulators, can be very intertaining.all the best.

[chanterdan]

[chanterdan]

[Dionys]

Ive heard people talk about large "paddle" head reeds and am curious to learn more. pat skys description of liam oflynns reed makes it sound like somthing worth tying (largest, ugliest, best sounding and easiest to play), but to my knowledge there isnt any published method for making this style reed, maybe there is a good reason for this? would this also be like the style of reed paddy keenan uses? to me it would seem difficult to make a reed so large, play up to pitch, what is the secret here? did leo rowesome use this style of reed often? there are some dimensions of the oflynn reed on dayes website, or was, and ive tried a few times in the past to make one and never had anything close to success. on the other end of the spctrum there are tim brittons reeds which are tiny. his chanter is stretched out to close to 15 in. I believe so this makes sense. my reeds are getting better now that im staying very close to the common 1/2 in head 3 1/4 long reed. I may venture slightly wider or slightly narrower on the head width, baby steps at a time and see where I end up, or maybe just settle with this standard because it seems to work.

I've had a couple of L. Rowsome's reeds (original) pass through my hands (and some stay with me) and there are certainly some "paddle-head" reeds in there. The reed I used most in the Rowsome I used most was a "paddle head" based off the measurements of an ever-so-slightly cracked L. Rowsome and it sounded gorgeous.

That said, I find Britton's 'narrow' reeds exceedingly easy to play if they're made correctly, and rich in timbre. Though I've found they rarely work great in a Rowsome stick. Though you certainly don't need a 'paddle head.'

I would definately encourage you to experiment in your reedmaking. You'll end up learning a *lot* and it's not that much sacrifice if you buy a bunch of reed-making materials in 'bulk' from some place like Medir. Compare it to the cost of a chanter alone from any reputable maker and consider that an excellent reed makes a great deal of difference in overall quality.

Also experiment with other 'woods' (rather than A.Donax) such as Elder when you're comfortable. It's a delight to work with and the quality of the sound is spectacular.

[Brazenkane]

That said, I find Britton's 'narrow' reeds exceedingly easy to play if they're made correctly, and rich in timbre. .

Check out Tim's latest book (Edition 4) His reads measure the same as many standard reeds. .5 wide and 1" or just under long. His diff. is not in the length/ width, but in the thickness of the gouge/scrape. + the reeds are wrapped under high pressure. Plus they are bridleless. Those last bits have the greatest bearing on how the tone of his reeds are most effected.

[Dionys]

I forget which edition of his book I have (one of the earlier ones, to be sure), but I never found his reeds to be excessively narrow to begin with. That said, anyone's book no matter how much of an expert they are (and Tim qualifies, for some people certainly) one should always keep in mind that any book, class, video, et cetera is a *starting* point for reedmaking. Think of it as an adventure and you'll have the best time of it, and be resigned to having a lot of odd reeds sitting around for your kids or friends to play with.