Learning tunes in unconventional keys

[Cullivan]

I've recently started learning off of Mary Bergin's recordings but she apparantly has a preference to using whistles in Eb, F, Bb, and other keys not generally found in sessions. My dilemma is this: if I use an Eb/F/etc whistle to learn the tunes from her recordings, will simply playing them on a D whistle in D or G (depending on whether or not the tune involves cross-fingering/half-holing) leave me with a tune in a key appropriate for session playing?

Essentially, I want to know if I can learn a tune on an Eb whistle and play it with other people in D on an Eb whistle.

I'm assuming that whatever Mary plays with cross-fingering/half-holing is usually played in G and whatever doesn't involve any of those fingerings is normally played in D. Is this correct?

[Bloomfield]

Essentially, I want to know if I can learn a tune on an Eb whistle and play it with other people in D on an Eb whistle.

No. But no problem: learn it off Mary on the Eb whistle and play it on a D whistle in the session.

[FJohnSharp]

I think one of the funnest things about whistles is that you can change keys by simply changing whistles and the fingering stays the same. It's a real boon for drummer-turned-wind player type folks like me who are too lazy to learn which notes they are actually playing in the other keys.

[MTGuru]

I think one of the funnest things about whistles is that you can change keys by simply changing whistles and the fingering stays the same. It's a real boon for drummer-turned-wind player type folks like me who are too lazy to learn which notes they are actually playing in the other keys.

Yeah ... In the string instrument world, it's called a capo.

Mary Bergin records with different-pitched whistles for tonal variety, but the tunes are fingered as if on a D whistle. To be sure about a particular tune, check one of the online resources to find out what the canonical session key is likely to be.

The Session: http://www.thesession.org
JC Tune Finder: http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind
Fiddler's Companion: http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FCfiles.html

Also, if you have a software tool like Transcribe or Audacity, you can adjust the pitch of the recorded tracks back to concert pitch, so that you can learn and play along with a D whistle.

I'm assuming that whatever Mary plays with cross-fingering/half-holing is usually played in G and whatever doesn't involve any of those fingerings is normally played in D. Is this correct?

Sorry, the question isn't clear. If you mean that D Major tunes use C# and G Major tunes C-natural, that's mostly true. But cross/half fingering in itself doesn't necessarily specifiy a key or fingering.

[Cullivan]

I'm assuming that whatever Mary plays with cross-fingering/half-holing is usually played in G and whatever doesn't involve any of those fingerings is normally played in D. Is this correct?

Sorry, the question isn't clear. If you mean that D Major tunes use C# and G Major tunes C-natural, that's mostly true. But cross/half fingering in itself doesn't necessarily specifiy a key or fingering.

Yes, sorry I couldn't find a better way to word it- I was too lazy to recall that the would-be "C" on any whistle is just the seventh of the scale. On the plus side, I fully understand your answer!

I'm suprised to find out that Transcribe can alter the pitch of an entire tune- I already use it to slow things down but I had no idea it could help me learn on a D whistle.

Essentially, I want to know if I can learn a tune on an Eb whistle and play it with other people in D on an Eb whistle.

No. But no problem: learn it off Mary on the Eb whistle and play it on a D whistle in the session.

Woops, I meant to say "D on a D whistle" in the first place. Your answer applies nonetheless, though.

Thanks for the responses- now I've got no qualms about tackling Bergin's arrangements.

[pancelticpiper]

Sometimes people who are not experienced whistle players and/or are new to Irish music have a difficult time figuring out which key whistle was used on a particular track.

Experienced players have no trouble; they can tell by the sound of the notes and the style of the arrangement where "middle D" is for example, regardless what note that happens to be.

It's been quite a few years since I listened to the entire first Mary Bergin album, but as I recall she uses five or six different whistles.
Over the years I've run into quite a few people new to Irish music (classical flutists or violinists etc) who have faithfully learned every set off that album in the sounding keys (G reels in A flat etc). These people are dismayed when I explain that those tunes would never be played in those keys on flute or fiddle or any other instrument at an Irish session, and that whistle players inadvertantly transpose tunes every time they pick up a different whistle willy-nilly.

[Pyroh]

By the way, Cullivan, if you are sure the tune is usually played on D whistle, you can download Audacity (it´s a freeware) - and it can change pitch of a tune (in pretty good quality). I use it when I´m learning new tunes in weird keys

[Romulo]

By the way, Cullivan, if you are sure the tune is usually played on D whistle, you can download Audacity (it´s a freeware) - and it can change pitch of a tune (in pretty good quality). I use it when I´m learning new tunes in weird keys

Yes, but there are some CDs that have protection against digital manipulation and though it's possible to save their sound files in the computer, they don't allow any modification with Audacity or other software, but that should be because I'm ignorant about cracking

[MTGuru]

But as far as I know, any CD track that can be ripped to a plain vanilla MP3 or WAV without DRM can be processed in Audacity or Transcribe. If you can rip it, you can whip it. Or something like that.

[Romulo]

I just tried it again to confirm if I was missing something. I tried with the same CD Tobar an Dúchais by Bríd O'Donohue and again it didn't work. It allows ripping to the PC but when I try to open the files through Audacity it won't open. Maybe it's something else that it's wrong.

Most of the CDs are OK but some won't work so I thought there might be some kind of protection for digital handling.

[Pyroh]

I just tried it again to confirm if I was missing something. I tried with the same CD Tobar an Dúchais by Bríd O'Donohue and again it didn't work. It allows ripping to the PC but when I try to open the files through Audacity it won't open. Maybe it's something else that it's wrong.

Most of the CDs are OK but some won't work so I thought there might be some kind of protection for digital handling.

I´d try Audiograbber: http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net/download.html

It´s free and you can rip directly into mp3s.

[Romulo]

Pyroh, the problem is not ripping into mp3, I'm not experiencing any problem with that and I can hear them at the computer.

The thing is that if I want to slow down the tunes to practice or change the pitch through Audacity, the files won't open. Audiograbber has those functions as well or is it just a converter?

[MTGuru]

That's weird, Romulo. I doubt that Bríd's CD is copy protected (Peter would know). Are you ripping to MP3? Try WAV format instead. Maybe your Audacity MP3 layer is not working. Also make sure you close your CD ripping program and any other audio players before trying to open the file in Audacity. Don't know if any of that will help.

[Romulo]

Yeah it's weird. Following your advice I went to check the file extension and it was actually set as wma and thought that should be the reason too , then I ripped the CD again both as mp3 files and wav files but they won't open anyway in Audacity! I also closed the ripping software (Windows Media Player) and that doesn't seem to be the reason as well.

[Pyroh]

Try the Audiograbber - you can set proper frequency, and although it may not be used as Audacity, it´s pure grabbing program, and as such, it can break many protections.

Wma can´t be opened in Audacity, true.

By the way, MTGuru, can´t it be caused by lack of LAME encoder?