Tenor banjo or banjitar

[ofloyd]

Hello all. I am wanting to learn the irish banjo and would like to know if I should go with a tenor banjo or a guitar banjo. I think I remember reading that the tenor banjo is commonly used in ITM but I am also a guitar player which sparked my interest in a banjitar. I don't want to learn fingerstyle playing and only wish to use a flatpicking method. Which would be best suited? Thanks.

[s1m0n]

Either will work. Many guitarist cheat by stringing a tenor banjo like the top four strings on a guitar.

[ofloyd]

Thanks for the reply. Is the nut width on a banjitar similar to that of a steel string acoustic? Also, is the string tension similar?

[buddhu]

For what it's worth I'd recommend actually learning GDAE tenor banjo.

I came to mandolin and banjo from guitar, and if I had stuck with guitar I'd have missed out on the most fun ever. Tenor banjo is played with a pick, and for Irish melodies in G and D the 5ths tuning is great. The scales fall right under your fingers.

If you want to pick tunes then go with tenor banjo in tenor banjo tuning. If you just want to strum, then forget banjo and stick with guitar - or get a zouk. I see little real point in the banjitar...

[brewerpaul]

I agree with Buddhu. In addition to what he said, learning to play GDAE would make learning mandolin in the future very easy.
However, if you're interested in mainly playing chords, a banjitar might be preferable. I find chords on the mandolin or GDAE tenor a pain in the butt.

[Doc Jones]

I agree with Buddhu. In addition to what he said, learning to play GDAE would make learning mandolin in the future very easy.
However, if you're interested in mainly playing chords, a banjitar might be preferable. I find chords on the mandolin or GDAE tenor a pain in the butt.

I don't much care for banjo guitars. Maybe I've just never seen a good one. I'd agree with getting a tenor banjo and tuning it to GDAE. I'm confused by Paul's comment on mando and tenor banjo chords being a pain. I find them very simple and easy to play. There are only four strings after all. Pretty tough to make a "hard to play" chord out of four strings. I also play guitar though so maybe my point of reference is different.

If your'e a decent guitarist it'll take you all of 5 minutes to learn all the banjo/mando chords you'll ever need for IrTrad tunes.

Doc

Doc

[Mack.Hoover]

fine, fun forum! I'm here to stay and glad!

Banjo guitars are suited to guitar players who don't want to change their playing technique.

GDAE tuned tenors are most compatible with mando players because of identical tuning (an octave lower) scales and chords.

CGDA is the ordinary tuning for tenor banjos. Playing chords and scales is the same except the G fingering is C, etc. It's easy to adjust your thinking.

You need to use different strings or you lose intonation when tuning a typical tenor to GDAE.

Whichever you do it's best to get the setup done by a knowledgeable person or you'll be unhappy with whatever you get.

Most of the instruments I find without any wear at all were so poorly setup that they simply weren't played for that reason.

Mack

[Tim2723]

The banjo resonator has been added to just about every stringed instrument; guitars, mandolins, ukuleles, even fiddles and dulcimers. The idea has always been the same: to provide the banjo's timbre without having to learn a 'new' instrument. The hybrids have been around for a long time but have never truly made the transition to mainstream. There's probably a good reason for that.

The nut width varies from maker to maker, just as in guitars, but the string tension is similar to a guitar. It's basically a guitar with a banjo pot on it.

A great number of the tunes in ITM were developed on the fiddle. It seems to make sense that the open fifths tuning of the tenor banjo and the various mandolin-family instruments would be a good fit, as they use the same logic. While there are unquestionably any number of talented flatpickers out there working wonders with ITM on guitar-type tunings, there's something about the symetrical fifths tuning that really 'makes sense' for ITM. Once the tuning is mastered, the music seems to just fall under the fingers naturally. That's probably not too surprising, as they are often fiddle tunes to begin with.

For many players, the chord forms in fifths tuning are much easier on the mandolin than any of the larger cousins. It's usually the stretch between frets that's the challenge. I've noticed that those who begin on mandolin have a harder time adapting to banjo than guitarists do, simply because guitarists are already used to the big frets.

There's also a quality about chords on a four string instrument that seem somehow out of place for ITM. They lack the richness of the guitar forms. The fifths tuning provides for chord inversions that sound rather alien to ITM, while the ringing, bass-heavy guitar chords fit very well and provide a satisfying sound.

I will agree with Doc that I've yet to see a current production banjitar that seemed like a well made instrument. I'm sure there are some excellent builders out there, and certainly someone like Gibson probably has some exquisite old instruments out in the world, but the new ones I've played have not impressed me at all. YMMV.

If you were only planning to strum chords in an ITM session, the guitar is the favoured instrument. You'll hear chords on bouzoukis and octave mandolins but almost never on banjo, four-string or otherwise. The banjo sound in chording is not especially common in ITM. If you have a session you attend, I'd recommend talking to your sessionmates for their input. It's a shame to invest in an instrument that your mates don't want around. Indeed, many session players aren't too fond of bouzouki chords either.

Since you intend to focus predominantly on melody work, then the GDAE Irish tuned tenor banjo is the power instrument, but the banjitar will allow you to move easily between instruments.

If it's a blend of melody picking and chording you think you might end up with, then the guitar and bouzouki (et.al.) win in most situations.

If you want to strum only chords, the guitar is the powerhouse of the string family.

[brewerpaul]

Doc-- I can easily play two and three fingered chords on the mando, but unless a chord has an open string or two, I have problems. If you know/have a good, easy chord chart please let me know!

[ofloyd]

Wow, great replies and thanks everyone. Yes, I believe that the tenor in GDAE tuning is best suited. I already know the violin so note reading will be a breeze.

[Griffis]

I think this thread has finally tipped me in favor of the GDAE tuning on my tenors. I've played 6-string guitar for almost 30 years and have been playing ukulele for the past 5 or so.

I've played lots of other stringed instruments over the years as well, but these are the ones I've stuck with.

I recently acquired both a tenor guitar and tenor banjo and have been learning them in CGDA tuning. I think now I will switch to GDAE because I want to take up the mandolin again anyway.

As for banjitars, I had one I git from Lark in the Morning and felt it was a poor instrument (and I like cheapies as a rule.) I have a friend who had a Tyler Mt. banjitar for a while and he wasn't very pleased with it either.

Gold Tone makes a couple of models of banjitar and I've had good luck with their merchandise in the past, though I've never played their banjitars specifically.) Also, Deering makes one (they even make a 12-string model) which I'm sure are good if they are on par with the quality of other Deering products, but they cost over twice as much as the Gold Tones.

I like the idea of the banjitar. I love playing my tenor but I do miss the Carter-style playing and doing those bass runs. Those aren't very easy with a tenor, but if I can work with a ukulele, I can go with tenor guitars and banjos I figure.

[Tim2723]

Guys, let's not forget that Chicago tuning (The four highest strings of the guitar) is a legitimate tuning for the banjo. There's nothing wrong with switching tunings. Banjos are usually equiped with 4:1 tuners to accomodate fast tuning changes. You can even use Kieth Tuners to allow lighting fast changes that nobody even notices you're doing. There's about a dozen ways to tune a banjo, and many players re-configure their instruments between songs. It is NOT a big deal.

I'll definitely agree with Griffis that Deering or Gold Tone is the brand I would choose. Because the banjitar is not a popular, main stream instrument, your choices are between cheap junk and expensive stuff. Deering and Gold Tone are the leaders in current production line banjitars.

But that's why I seriously think you should check with your sessionmates. The only thing worse than wasting $500 on a piece of junk is to spend $2000 on an instrument that your friends don't want around.

[KBR]

Hi,
I just started attending a local session with my bantar (guit-jo or banjitar to some) which I built for that purpose. I've had a few tenor banjos over the years but never had a fondness for them (guitar is my first instrument, 5 string banjo is my second). I've been reading the comments about tenor banjo. Aside from the range of the instrument, the fact that the fingering in GDAE tuning lends an idiomatic ease to playing pieces in the key of D, I see no specific other advantages. The short scale of the tenor inhibits the tone of the lowest notes. I don't know this from experience playing but rather from building many instruments over the last 35 years.
My bantar has a scale length comparable to a guitar, uses guitar strings and can be played using guitar techniques, either with a plectrum or fingerstyle. Also, chords are no problem, the instrument does not favor one key over another and it has a greater range than the tenor banjo. So far, it fits the bill perfectly. Please understand that I am a guitar player first. If I was a mandolinist or fiddler it would certainly be easier to move to a tenor banjo. Each instrument has its charms. More than one way to do things.....
Yes, there aren't too many high quality 6 string banjo out there...Deering make a nice one.....cheers Kevin

[plunkett5]

I have been on both sides of this debate in terms of guitar tuning or tenor banjo. For playing complex chords like for a Broadway show I'll cop to the guitar tuning everytime, since I've played guitar since two Democrats were President in a row! But for ITM, tenor banjo tuning of GDAE is unbeatable. The tunes literally lay beneath your fingers. It is a physical pleasure to play jigs and reels in this tuning. Try it for 1/2 an hour and you'll never go back. Best of luck which ever you decide.- Mike

[crookedtune]

There's about a dozen ways to tune a banjo, and many players re-configure their instruments between songs.

Plenty more than that, actually. Here's a list of about 124, (granted, it's for 5-strings....):
http://www.zeppmusic.com/banjo/aktuning.htm