2 Flute materials questions

[sbfluter]

1. Derlin seems incredibly hard. Is there a reason not to make a derlin flute thin so that the flute is light? Is it brittle?

2. Why are there no carbon fiber flutes? I would think they'd be light and strong since they make bicycles out of the stuff. Even bicycle crank arms which are probably one of the most stress-prone parts of the bicycle.

[Gabriel]

Ad 1: I guess it's mainly because of aesthetical reasons.

Ad 2: http://www.matitflutes.com/

[Gordon]

1. Derlin seems incredibly hard. Is there a reason not to make a derlin flute thin so that the flute is light? Is it brittle?

2. Why are there no carbon fiber flutes? I would think they'd be light and strong since they make bicycles out of the stuff. Even bicycle crank arms which are probably one of the most stress-prone parts of the bicycle.

Derlin is almost as heavy as Delrin.

I hear, though, that they make really nice flutes out of wood, too.

[eilam]

Diane, the M&E is not made from Delrin, i think it's milled from a solid PVC rod?
also, the head is fully lined........and the flute thick.
i think Delrin is a bit heavier then Blackwood?

[kkrell]

1. Derlin seems incredibly hard. Is there a reason not to make a derlin flute thin so that the flute is light? Is it brittle?

Yeah, yeah, Delrin.

You want a certain profile of the internal bore for performance. You then need a reasonable outer profile to fit the hands. I suppose you could thin the flute in other areas where its not handled (including the head), put grooves in it (fluting), etc., but indeed there is an issue of traditional appearance and cost of labor. In my opinion, the flute is composed of the space between your hands and the inner bore.

Kevin Krell

[Jayhawk]

Isn't a Delrin flute much lighter than Delrin...since it's all full of holes?

I think part of the reason they don't thin out delrin is the need for sufficient embouchure and tone hole height to properly voice the flute.

Who is the maker of the delrin flute you've been playing? Seery is lighter than M&E (which is actually PVC), and I imagine a copley or forbes without the slide would be even lighter (I know my old Dixon wasn't that heavy).

This thread was interesting: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ts&start=0

My M&E 6 key weighed in less than a 7 key R&R and 8 key Wilkes. A Burn's as well as an Aebi blackwood with slides weighed more than a Seery or M&E keyless (both polymer flutes have slides). It's all relative and the profile of the flute, as well as the balance, can make a huge difference in how it feels to hold the flute.

Eric

[AaronMalcomb]

Jon C offers a few different thicknesses on his Delrin flutes. I've played a couple of the thinner ones and they are quite light.

Delrin is strong enough to be very thin but it's more a matter of what thickness gives the best sound.

[Jon C.]

1. Derlin seems incredibly hard. Is there a reason not to make a derlin flute thin so that the flute is light? Is it brittle?

2. Why are there no carbon fiber flutes? I would think they'd be light and strong since they make bicycles out of the stuff. Even bicycle crank arms which are probably one of the most stress-prone parts of the bicycle.

Hi,
I have made a ultra thin delrin flute, when I was having wrist problems. There is no problem with the material being turned thin. If you want it, let me know.
Carbon fiber would be hard to work with.
M&E uses PVC, it is not as strong as delrin, but has a nice tone. The PVC also has a lower melting point then delrin, so there is sometimes a problem with the socket becoming out of round, if you leave it in your hot car.

[Aanvil]

Jon C offers a few different thicknesses on his Delrin flutes. I've played a couple of the thinner ones and they are quite light.

Delrin is strong enough to be very thin but it's more a matter of what thickness gives the best sound.

Yes, as I have stated in another thread, my keyless Cochran is rather slim, light and well balanced and its a Pratten.

[sbfluter]

Solid PVC? Wow, well you can bludgen a man to death with PVC then. Still, it's an M&E I'm looking at and seems a lot thicker and stronger than you would ever really need.

That carbon fiber boehm looked very cool.

[Ronbo]

Solid PVC? Wow, well you can bludgen a man to death with PVC then. Still, it's an M&E I'm looking at and seems a lot thicker and stronger than you would ever really need.

That carbon fiber boehm looked very cool.

Which is a good reason not to insult someone playing a delrin or pvc flute.

[Jon C.]

Solid PVC? Wow, well you can bludgen a man to death with PVC then. Still, it's an M&E I'm looking at and seems a lot thicker and stronger than you would ever really need.

That carbon fiber boehm looked very cool.

I think M&E is making his flute wall thick for the tone, rather then the stability of the flute. The chimney hight of the embouchure hole is about 6 mm... This gives a rich tone, but a very thick flute.

[Doug_Tipple]

1. Derlin seems incredibly hard. Is there a reason not to make a derlin flute thin so that the flute is light? Is it brittle?

2. Why are there no carbon fiber flutes? I would think they'd be light and strong since they make bicycles out of the stuff. Even bicycle crank arms which are probably one of the most stress-prone parts of the bicycle.

Hi,
I have made a ultra thin delrin flute, when I was having wrist problems. There is no problem with the material being turned thin. If you want it, let me know.
Carbon fiber would be hard to work with.
M&E uses PVC, it is not as strong as delrin, but has a nice tone. The PVC also has a lower melting point then delrin, so there is sometimes a problem with the socket becoming out of round, if you leave it in your hot car.

I agree with Jon that PVC will begin to flow and deform if left in a hot car. However, since the joints on PVC flutes are flexible, some out-of-roundness will not ruin the flute. But there is a limit to how hot you can get the flute without having it deform into a useless hunk of plastic. A friend of mine left one of my PVC flutes on the dashboard on his car on a summer day in Tucson, Arizona. He shouldn't have done that.

One way that Delrin differs from PVC has to do with it's water absorption. In this regard, Delrin absorbs water to a greater degree than does PVC. I don't know whether this is a problem or not. Does anyone know whether the area around the embouchure hole on a Delrin flute will tend to soften with time from the accumulated absorption of saliva?

[Denny]

One way that Delrin differs from PVC has to do with it's water absorption. In this regard, Delrin absorbs water to a greater degree than does PVC. I don't know whether this is a problem or not. Does anyone know whether the area around the embouchure hole on a Delrin flute will tend to soften with time from the accumulated absorption of saliva?

No idea...however

I've had to replace the roller part of some of the stall doors in the barn. (these are the slide to the side type of doors) They have changed the track and rollers so I have had to replace both as the bearings in some of the old ones have failed.

The new ones use Delrin bearings.

There are a couple of the newer ones that were replaced before we got here. They should be at least 5-6 years old now. They are fine.

[Aanvil]

One way that Delrin differs from PVC has to do with it's water absorption. In this regard, Delrin absorbs water to a greater degree than does PVC. I don't know whether this is a problem or not. Does anyone know whether the area around the embouchure hole on a Delrin flute will tend to soften with time from the accumulated absorption of saliva?

I play mine for abusive durations of time.

Lots of moisture.

The answer so far is no.

Moisture absorption does not appear to affect the sharp edge of the emb.

I feel I should mention that Derlin is recommended for use in marine applications by Dupont.