Posting clips

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GreenWood
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Re: Posting clips

Post by GreenWood »

Martisan wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:01 am That’s a lovely one, Greenwood. One of your own too I guess from your post? The metre of it reminds me of a slow air called Na Connerys, although they’re totally different airs. Fair play
Re. Connerys...

So...this is roughly my background in music, mostly on guitar... to varying degrees...blues (folk and early), classical, baroque, jazz, flamenco, country, anything else but no Irish music. For Irish music... a friend would sometimes play Bothy Band, The Dubliners would be played sometimes around, Donovan (doesn't count for trad?), the occasional shanty would be sung in company, modern popular versions on radio sometimes... for pipes Scotland the Brave and marches and similar, i.e. what some would call stereotype . Then when I started playing flute it was mostly Irish music. That is two years playing now or so, have listened completely to forty well known songs played by known players, and have learned maybe twenty, of which I play possibly five at ease, but for most I know them but am only able play through them close to how they should be played occasionally. No Na Connery do I remember ever reading or hearing of... that is how uninformed on Irish music I am...

But

I looked it up, there is a nice violin version online that has a similar feel to the above tune but somewhat different melody, then at Irishtuneinfo there are a few clips, and the pipes sound familiar somehow. Then I remember on a mixed tape recording (not Irish music) I had maybe twenty five years ago, which had one pipe tune included, which I found very real every time I listened to it. I can only remember, even trying now, the first two bars of it, but I remember listening to it and being quite caught by it. That was Seamus Ennis, I even remember the name, not the tune. But Na Connery at tuneinfo is played by William Clancy (if I just remember), no Ennis. So I search up Ennis (I actually looked up Seamus Ines at first, had forgotten the spelling) and there is the tune, Trip O'er The Mountain, at tuneinfo, sounding as it first did.

Well, that is funny, because O'er The Mountain does sound like Na Connery, so I search up both tunes and their history, looking for earliest publication and so on. Both seem around early 19th century attribute, Na Connerys with the events of that time, O'er the Mountain by other mention. So I take music score of both and they seem to fit each other in overlap. So same tune different song it would seem, and that is not unusual.

So, did I copy the tune in some way somehow ? I could not say, only that I did not have any tune in mind at all at all at all when playing that. I know for The Horse With the Whistling Lip, it was from ... the horse with the whistling lip... but I also know that at the same time I had in mind a tune sound (not melody) along certain lines shared by various songs that I felt to approach, though in fact for the tune I was playing the first half before thinking it might sound towards like that sort of style. ? .

I have a reply three quarters written to rykirk (if I remember) on a different post but similar topic, in that case how certain tune origins dissappear into the mists of time but are found expressing themselves in different versions according to their need. Will post that sometime.

Well that is just to explain all possible with regard. I don't count any tune as "mine", I didn't invent music and just count myself as fortunate for being able to play. That any music I play/compose is influenced by other goes completely without saying, I don't think there are any musicians around who have never listened to any other music. If it sounds similar I hope that is taken, if anything, as tribute. I accept trying to understand the source of any music. Even near straight copy under different name, or simply renaming, is not uncommon historically either and there are even more recent examples which are accepted without question for one reason or another. Purposefully copying a melody and calling it my own is something I have no intention of doing, and it goes against the idea of creating music.

That all brings to mind one of the best known or liked flute pieces ever, by Men at Work ... and now when we remember it we are told to think they stole it. That seems a real shame, putting an argument between the music and the listener, or tagging it as unworthy somehow ?
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benhall.1
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Tell us something.: I'm a fiddler and, latterly, a fluter. I love the flute. I wish I'd always played it. I love the whistle as well. I'm blessed in having really lovely instruments for all of my musical interests.
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Re: Posting clips

Post by benhall.1 »

GreenWood wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:04 am That all brings to mind one of the best known or liked flute pieces ever, by Men at Work ... and now when we remember it we are told to think they stole it. That seems a real shame, putting an argument between the music and the listener, or tagging it as unworthy somehow ?
Your comment made me go and listen to the two pieces and see if I could spot the similarities. They are similar, but even so, this seems very harsh, as the tune is used very differently in each.
GreenWood
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Re: Posting clips

Post by GreenWood »

That is the thing Ben, at what point does anyone draw the line? Is it just note sequence, and if so for how many notes? How it sounds maybe, but that is already vague. I might understand if a tune was so obvious throughout, but then? For traditional music I think we are pretty much past that theme, any rights going to version and not the tune itself, so I wonder what went on in Oz there, because "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" I don't think is "owned" either (I might be wrong on that), even if it were copied somehow (I also don't think so, but if so I think not consciously)

There is a recently composed Irish air that has become very well liked, as usual I'm not good on names. That is righted as a tune, with the composer just asking for permission to be sought before using it. That is fair enough in today's world maybe, but it isn't like Men At Work were stopping others singing their own other songs or anything. So it kind of defies me what that was all about. Terry probably has a better idea on the who and what.

That is the problem with rights, as soon as claiming ownership rights in any way anyone is straight into legalities, i.e. open to be contested on that. Most who have gained fame are simply obliged by contract with the producers to cross every T with regards, which might also end up as a trap of some kind.

For myself, I think only the very talented or those chosen for promotion are likely to ever make a good living from music. The closest I have got to performance besides amongst friends is busking, and that was only to stop myself starving, litterally. I might write down some of that sometime. I am also often surprised by the quantity of recent quality music, especially folk, available online for free (on channels that have authors consent), I'm thankful for it but realise also that the authors are either forsaking paid reward, or are being generous. I don't question.

I wrote a poem on The Nightjar, it is the closest I am able to describe the tune. I think many people have some kind of experience at the hands of others, of one kind or another, to lament or ponder on, myself being no exception (for example leaving a country and friends behind due to war, exile from a country and family for no wrongdoing)

The Nightjar

Long before a moon had risen, when last light was near dark
Silent as an empty glass warned by a distant bark
Of nowhere on the path in front would choose to flight
A farewell bird of gentle fright
And lost it was before being found but for a feather's sound
And lost it was in the sky above before it left the ground.

On that warm night what frost was shed as gliding overhead
And certain as the world beneath, turning as it was led
The Nighjar played before our eyes what 'tis to be its own
The Nightjar played before our eyes 'til
dreaming wings were flown.
GreenWood
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Re: Posting clips

Post by GreenWood »

This tune is called Setting Sail. It is clipped together from a recording, because when there is a recorder going I so far have never that I remember finished a tune in one go. That is how it is supposed to sound though, roughly, the obvious skips are part of the tune, not from editing. Actually, I didn't do much editing except place clearer parts together. No EQ or effects, played on the keyless Boehm.

https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... AQNYfbWCvX
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