Newbie ?'s - Open vs Closed fingering & Balance finger?

[lecraw1097]

I am now into my 2nd full day of tinwhistle-ing?, and I have a few questions on general playing techniques. I am using online resources for my training - particularly The Sessioneer's tinwhistle guide (www.thesessioneer.org). The Sessioneer points out that you can choose to use open or closed fingering depending on preference (all fingers open except the note(s) you need versus all closed except the note you need). Which technique do the majority of whistlers use?

I am working on the D-scale now using the fingering guide for each note - the second question is how to use a balance finger. When you play all open like the C# note, the Sessioneer suggests using R3 on the last hole for balance. Is this a pretty standard technique or not? If the B note right before the C# in the scale is L1 and all else open, do I put R3 down as soon as I lift L1 off for the C# so that I always have a finger on the whistle for balance? Or do you always keep R3 down for balance (except when you need it open for a note). I know this is a nitpicky question but I plan on practicing with one technique in the beginning so I dont have to think about it anymore going forward.

Thanks,
Reid

[crookedtune]

Reid, I haven't gone over the Sessioneer to look at what you're referencing, but I think you're misunderstanding it. There are no options regarding fingering, other than on some cross-fingered accidentals. The scale is what it is, and there's only one way to finger it!

As to the balance finger when playing all holes open, (C#), I use the pinky of the right hand. Hope this helps. Good luck, and have fun whistling!

[Adrian]

That is how it is. There are lots of alternative fingerings for recorders but not really for whistles.

This page will give you a fingering chart
http://www.geocities.com/whistleandsque ... uction.pdf

The Whistle and Squeak site is very helpful.

[Cayden]

Thesessioneer.org gave a 404. Anyway, going by your description: don't believe a word they are saying. That's what you get when each idiot who thinks he can manage a few tunes starts putting up tutorials: you're likely to get told a lot of rubbish and given bad examples.

You can however leave one or two fingers of the lower hand down when playing the top hand notes. As always, use your common sense and above all your ears: if a note goes (too) flat or gets choked when you put more fingers down, it doesn't work.

[fearfaoin]

I'm not sure I like the Sessioneer's explanation. What is really
meant is that for some notes, you can leave some fingers down
below the hole that must be open without affecting the tone too
much. For example, you could play G like this:

xxx | 00x

Keeping the last hole covered does not hurt the tone of the G. The
only reason I use this is when I'm moving between notes where it
would be easier to keep fingers down lower on the whistle during
the movement. In Drowsy Maggy, for example, for the first
measure:

|E2BE dEBE|

You can leave the first and second fingers on your right hand
down the whole time, so it would be fingered like this:

E: xxx | xx0
B: x00 | xx0
E: xxx | xx0
d: xxx | xxx
E: xxx | xx0
B: x00 | xx0
E: xxx | xx0

[lecraw1097]

Thanks for the responses. I guess my post was a little unclear - I am basically talking about what Peter mentioned. When I am playing the top hand notes, should I keep fingers on the bottom hand fingered on holes for support or not? Sounds like there is no hard rule for it.
Crookedtune - you mentioned you use your pinky for support? Do you always have it on the whistle for support or just when you play all holes open (C#)?

Also, here is the link to the site I'm using again: http://www.sessioneer.org/

[Cayden]

Well, if you listen to whistleplayers and look at them you'd see there is a degree of flexibility, a certain digression from the one and only way to finger the scale. I mean, playing a B roll with the whole lower hand down is not exceptional:

[lecraw1097]

Fearfaoin - You posted while I was writing my reply. Yeah, that is what I'm referring to. Those notes when you can have the bottom fingers on without affecting the sound. So, if you were playing all open, you basically wouldn't have any fingers on the whistle (i.e. balancing on the thumbs)?

- Reid

[crookedtune]

Crookedtune - you mentioned you use your pinky for support? Do you always have it on the whistle for support or just when you play all holes open (C#)?

It's down sometimes, and dances around at other times. I sort of intuitively drop it when it seems like it could be useful, I guess. Often, I have all fingers up, and just balance the whistle between mouth and thumbs. (The C# seldom lasts long enough for the whistle to wander off very far).

Edited to add: I don't think I ever cover the low holes as described, except for Cnat, which I often like to finger this way:
OXXOXX (You may prefer the more common OXXOOO).

So, for example, my G is always: XXXOOO

[fearfaoin]

When I am playing the top hand notes, should I keep fingers on the bottom hand fingered on holes for support or not?

My rule is: "Only do it when you need to, because of movement
between notes. Use your pinky for support instead. If you're holding
the note, do not put extra fingers down, so the tone is sure to be good."

But, you will have to make your own rule according to your playing
style.

[Cayden]

Yes there was a bit of simultaneous posting there, as a rule you can leave at least one lower hand finger down except for E and F, higher up the scale you may leave two or even three lower hand ones sitting there, depending on the situation. There will be a slight flattening of notes which will vary a bit from one whistle to the next so that is where the ear comes in, you may want to use any finger of the lower hand in varying configurations to apply a bit of vibrato. And all of that without making a distinction between open and closed fingering, which is not really a concept applied to the whistle.

[lecraw1097]

Great - that's exactly what I was looking for. I think going forward, at least while I'm working on D, G, and A scales, I will use only the fingers I need for the note and the bottom hand all open, and also my pinky up rather than down (just holding whiste with mouth). I wanted to make sure before I started drilling the scales b/c if I played them a thousand times always keeping those right hand fingers down for support, I would probably always default to that technique going forward.
I guess when you get all of your learning advice from one specific website, you kind of adopt their particular method of playing, whether or not it is necessarily the best way to go about it.

Thanks
Reid

[fearfaoin]

Well, you could expand your horizons...

http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... fting.html

[Ostrich Caller]

And to add even more confusion to the thread, sometimes it depends on the whistle itself. For example, with my Mellow Dog I need to finger Cnat as OXXXOX because it's a little sharp as OXXOOO.

[MTGuru]

The Sessioneer's tinwhistle guide (www.thesessioneer.org).

The correct URL is: http://www.sessioneer.org

I mean, playing a B roll with the whole lower hand down is not exceptional

Peter, that's a nice shot of Mary Bergin, for those who don't recognize her.

The sessioneer terminology "open and closed fingering", which is meaningful in piping terms, seems very bizarre, even deceptive when applied to whistle. It's just the wrong way to think about whistle fingering. Brother Steve's description of "lazy fingering" is much more to the point, as are the recommendations of Peter and fearfaoin here.

As for the pinky ... It's a bit like asking "What do you do with your hands and arms when you're walking?" Do you swing them with same leg, or opposite leg, or hold them rigid, etc.? If you have to think about it, you're thinking too much!

The common sense function of the pinky is to 1) provide some leverage and balance for stable fingering; 2) keep the whistle from sliding out of your hands and lips and crashing to the ground. Whatever use of the pinky feels natural to you to accomplish those two goals is right for you.

Personally, the way I play, fingering an open C# without the pinky down would guarantee a spectacular demonstration of "whistle volante". By inspection of my own technique, my pinky is down whenever none of the other lower hand fingers is down due to note fingering or lazy fingering. In other words, I always have at least one lower hand finger or pinky down. It's a simple as that.

When not in use, my pinky either floats free or rests gently against the barrel. While some people (like Grey Larsen) recommend keeping the pinky down always, I find this severely restricts lower hand finger movement, and is unnecessary and positively unhelpful.