Cross the Fence

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:43 am

I recently learned the Home Ruler, a hornpipe. (Stop snickering, Steven.) I thought it would make a nice set with Cross the Fence. Does anybody play that? I get the idea from Eamonn Curran & Kieran Crehan. And does anybody have some background information on Cross the Fence?

DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:05 am

Hey, Im at work so I dont have the links, but you might try that Fiddler's Companion site I have listed in the Links section of the Annex...it has a very extensive search feature with lots of background on thousands of tunes.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:57 am

I have never come across anyone playing it much around here, I used to play it though, learned from the same Dolores Keane lp. I went out of playing it after I took to the Bantry Hornpipes which is a related tune. More or less.
Most people follow the hill/Linnane set and play Kitty's wedding after the Home Ruler.
Kieran Crehan has never brought up the tune when I play with him [sorry Bloomfield for dropping names again, once or twice a year we sit down and tear into it, he's a beautiful fiddle player] so maybe Eamonn Curran brought in the tune, which seems to fit in with my initial feeling it is a tune beloning to northern parts.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-06-13 12:05 ]

DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:25 am

Peter:

If you dont mind, could you either post or email to me some info about your favoite hornpipe sets. I've been learning the usual ones (Galway, etc) but usually individually, and I'd be interested to know if there are standard sets that you guys always graviatate towards and that work well together. Also, I'd like a short list of your favorite hornpipes, cauz I'd like to have a couple of nice hornpipe sets up my sleeve. The folks in my local sessions tend to play individual tunes, and not a lot of hornpipes. I'm really lovin the hornpipes the more I learn them and play them.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:28 am

On 2002-06-13 11:57, Peter Laban wrote:
I have never come across anyone playing it much around here, I used to play it though, from the same Dolores Keane lp. Most people follow the hill/Linnane set and play Kitty's wedding after the Home Ruler.
Kieran Crehan has never brought up the tune when I play with him [sorry Bloomfield for the dropping names again] so maybe Eamonn Curran brought in the tune, which seems to fit in with my initial feeling it is a tune beloning to northern parts.

No need to apologize, Peter, you know how I envy you. I had never payed much attention to the Dolores Keane/Faulkner CD, except for the songs, but now I am giving it a closer listen. My entirely uninformed opinion is that Kieran Crehan's playing is wonderful. Beautiful and unpretentious, with real feeling and unrushed. There are only three instrumental no.s on the CD: Tommy Peoples'/Mary Shore, Home Ruler/Cross the Fence (the one I mentioned above), and Kyle Brack Rambler/Miss McGuinness/Speed the Plough (very nice!).

I like Cross the Fence, but it has a newer, maybe composed feel to it. Perhaps I'll try Kitty's Wedding, been meaning to learn that one, anyway. Are you referring to the 1979 Noel Hill & Tony Linnane record that also has the Scotsman over the Border/Tom Billy's set on it? (I've heard that one, but don't have the record.)

BTW, Peter, do you know what Kieran plays after The Ploughboy, Track 1 (of the Brokenhearted I'll Wander CD)? It sounds like a double jig, with five parts, that they play AA BB CC DD EE AA...

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:31 am

Dazed, I'll look for the fiddler companion webpage, thanks.

Peter, just say your edits. Where did you get the Bantry hornpipes? I've never heard of them. (Big surprise, there :roll: )

EDIT:
This is what the Fiddler's Companion had to say about Cross the Fence:

ACROSS THE FENCE. AKA - "Cross the Fence," "Reilly's Hornpipe." Irish, Hornpipe. G Major. Standard. AABBCC (Mulvihill): AABBCC'
(Cranitch). Composed by Brendan McGlinchy. The tune is in Bulmer & Sharpley as "Reilly's Hornpipe." Source for notated version: Brendan Mulvihill
(Baltimore, Md.) [Mulvihill]. Cranitch (Irish Fiddle Book), 1996; No. 91, pg. 162. Mulvihill (1st Collection), 1986; No. 45, pg. 102. Mulligan LUN
033, Dolores Keane, with Eamonn Currann and Kieran Crehan - "Broken Hearted I'll Wander" (1979).

_________________
/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-06-13 12:45 ]

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:12 pm

The jig after the Ploughboy is Doctor O Neill and pretty much as in the standard version in Krassen.

Cross the Fence composed by McGlinchey, makes sense, would suit him I think.

I learned the Bantry hornpipe from a 1940s recording by Seamus Ennis, now released on 'The Return from Fingal' Leo Rowsome recorded it as well. I think a version of sorts is in O neill's should get up now and check but I won't.

Kieran is a lovely player and so are his brothers Terry and Niall, they were all trained as classical players to get a really nice clear tone and managed to retain that in their traditional playing without ruining it.

Himself and Nial have a fiddlemaking and -dealing business in Dublin [www.crehans.com] so they usually have very nice sounding instruments too [best of the bunch].

The fiddle quartet version they were part of playing the Lament for the Wild Geese played at Junior's funeral is among the most moving pieces of music I ever heard.

My favourite hornpipes, are you sure that would be useful.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 2:32 pm

Thanks for the info, Peter. I just checked out Doctor O'Neill, as O'Neill's version is posted on the web, and it is a five-part jig, that they play like this on Brokenhearted I'll Wander: EE AA BB CC DD EE.
I think I'll learn that one off the record, lovely playing by K Crehan.

StevieJ · Post by **StevieJ** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:06 pm

And once you've got Dr O'Neill down, for your next piece of homework why not tackle this one off the same record. Makes a great whistle tune. Get dem off-beat rolls HAPPENING!

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 32&forum=1

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:53 pm

On 2002-06-13 17:06, StevieJ wrote:
And once you've got Dr O'Neill down, for your next piece of homework why not tackle this one off the same record. Makes a great whistle tune. Get dem off-beat rolls HAPPENING!

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 32&forum=1

Steve, I will! Kieran Crehan ROCKS! I am, like, sooo into him right now.

I looked at your transcription and there are really a remarkable number of spots for off-beat rolls in there. Just what the doctor ordered. I am really excited about learning all the tunes on that record, I've got the songs pretty much down anyway. I can't wait to sing The Ploughboy at our session (they permit such license, and even O'Carolan tunes). It has some classic verses, like this one.

She sent to me a posie
Of the red rose so fine
I sent to her another
It was rue mixed with thyme,
Saying, you can keep your red rose
And I will keep my thyme,
And you can drink to your true love
And I will drink to mine.
With me ran-to-nooree laddy fol-e-dydo.

Great little tune there for the song, too, done on a C-whistle. I've got it figured out from the record and will be happy to post the ABC, if anybody should be intrested in such recondite material.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:31 am

Wouldn't this be close to the standard version

T:Doctor O'Neill
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:D Major
A|d3 AFD|E2F G2A|BGB Bcd|AGF EFA|!
d3 AFD|E2F G2A|BGB Bcd|AFD D2:|!
A|d3 cBA|dfe dcB|AFA Bcd|AGF EFA|!
d3 cBA|dfe dcB|AFA Bcd|AFD D2:|!
g|fef afd|dcd fed|g3 f3|gee efg|!
fef afd|dcd fed|gfg eag|fdc d2:|!
g|fdf ece|dcB AFd|AFd AFd|AGF E2g|!
fdf ece|dcB AFA|BGB Bcd|AFD D2:|!
E|F3 GFG|FGF FED|F3 GFG|AFD EFG|!
F3 GFG|FGF FED|BGB Bcd|AFD D2:|!

I edit in the reply to Dazed's question

OK hornpipes so. Dazed, it’s hard to say what is usual or common, I haven’t for instance a clue what the Galway hrp is.
There’s so much music drifting around. These are some that would float to the surface if you’d twist my arm:

Johnny Cope, O’Dwyer’s, The Groves, Derry hrnp, Higgin’s., Alexander’s, Thomond Bridge, Cuckoo, Cuckoo’s nest, tSean Bhean Bhocht, Fairy Queen, Queen of the Fairies, Fisher’s[or Fisherman’s lilt], Poll ha’penny[both versions], Kildare fancy, Father Dollard’s, Spellane the Fiddler, Tailor’s twist, Corney Drew, Friendly visit, Fairies, the four ‘Stacks’: The Stack of Rye, The stack of Oats, The stack of Barley, The Stack of Wheat, Pleasures of Hope, Last house in Ballymakea, Hills of Coore, Bantry, Bantry Bay, Bank of Turf, Atlantic Sound, Golden Eagle, Struthan a’ Chait, Dunphy’s, Caisleann an Oirr, Tuamgraney Castle, Standing Abbey, Cronin’s, Plains of Boyle [aka Roscommon international airport;-)], Independent, Buck from the mountain, Walsh’s, The Stranger, Chief O Neill, Harvest Home, The Sweep, The Echo, The Swan, Honeysuckle, Byrne’s, Kitty’s wedding, Home Ruler, Right’s of Man, Quarrelsome piper [definitely a favourite;-)]Callaghan’s, Jer the rigger, The Blackbird [not he set dance, the hrnp], High level, Maguire's fiddle, Killeigh hrnp

All pretty much standard stuff, there’s heaps more really awful ones like The Star, the indifferent ones like The Liverpool, ones for fiddlers like Queen of the West [nice one that], Bees wing, Acrobat [for those with Sean McGuire type of inclinations, not so great on the whistle those] take your pick. Mix and Match.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-06-14 06:59 ]

DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:48 am

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:00 am

Yikes! Peter you can play at least twice as many hornpipes as I can play reels....

sigh...

Dazed, if I may: If you have Dorian tune, you can figure out what whistle you need by finding the corresponding Ionian (or major) scale. That's easy, because it is always one who step below the Dorian mode. So, these go together:
C major + D dorian
D major + E dorian
F major + G dorian etc. etc.

So there you have it, G dorian has the same key signature as F major, one flat, which works very nicely on a C whistle. The Bb will be like the the Cnat on a D whistle either half-holed or crossfingered oxxxox.

Edit re: Doctor O'Neill. Peter, I forgot: Yes that looks very close to what Kieran Crehan plays after the Ploughboy, but he starts with the last part, then playes the five parts, and finishes with the last part again. (EEAABBCCDDEE)
_________________
/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-06-14 10:03 ]

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:24 am

Dazed; the tune usually comes in Gdor, which suits the fiddle well, I play it by ear so to speak and on both pipes and whistle take it one tone up to suit. When playing with others I either not play it or take a c whistle if I have one handy.

On the issue of keys, don't make to much of it, this particular tuen was composed by Junior Crehan. Another of Junior's tunes 'The Mist Covered Mountain' used to be played in Gdor like Caisleann an Oir. Older recordings of Junior himself, eg on the lp Ceol an Chlar are in Gdor. Martin Rochford always played it in Gdor and he did a wonderful job on it too. Junior however in later years took the tuen up a tone ending it on A and that was how he played it when I knew him and that is how his daughters still play and we still do in what used to be his 'home base'. It is by the end of the day not that important. If it suits, you can take it somewhere else.

Bloomfield, I didn't say these were all the hornpipes I play, these are the ones I could think of off the top of my head. You accumulate over the years, it doesn't mean a lot.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-06-14 10:48 ]

DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:34 am

Thanks, Bloomfield, that helps a lot.

Um, sorry, but i have some more newbie questions:

In Home Ruler, in A4, the notes go down into the basement...ive modified it for my D whistle as AFDF. Similarly in Kittys Wedding I modified A3 to BAFA (Im going by memory here cause Im not at my home computer). This was my newbie stab at making these tunes more D whistle-friendly, but do more experienced minds have better ideas?