beginner overwhelmed with position

jhouse01 · Post by **jhouse01** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:44 pm

Hi all,

I just got my new Casey Burns folk flute (the one for smaller hands). I'm able to blow notes very easily, and it sounds wonderful--even with a beginner like myself.

But I'm having the hardest time with holding it! I've got Grey Larson's book, and am following his advice on learning to hold it, but it feels extremely awkward. The main problem seems to been getting my anchor points (lip, left hand joint, right pinkie), and then being able to reach the holes effectively. I have very small hands, so I'm thinking that's part of the problem--I'm thinking of trying to find a teacher, if I can, in my area so I don't develop a host of bad habits right off the bat.

I imagine some comfort level will come with practice, but right now the flute feels so insecure, and I want to stay relaxed & not use my fingers for grabbing on.

Any and all advice appreciated!

Thanks,

J House

Jennie · Post by **Jennie** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:15 pm

Welcome JHouse,

You're starting off well to be aware of relaxation, and to be careful not to grip too tightly. And you have a good resource in Larsen's book.

My band teacher used to joke about needing "sky hooks" for beginning flute players. Until you develop a more secure feeling, don't play over a hard floor! And be patient with yourself.

When I started, I used a rubber band around the flute at the point where my left index finger hold was. That helped to make it feel a little safer.

Jennie

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:19 pm

I'd not think that it was hand size...
The holding of the thing is just awkward at the start,
later there are other things that will frustrate you.

You omitted the right thumb...

If those are the only touch points on the flute it doesn't seem likely that you will evoke damage to yourself

Play things without C#s for a bit...stay off of hard floors
practice...practice...practice

gret · Post by **gret** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:35 pm

Hi J House,

I'm a beginner as well, using Grey Larsen's book. I found the hand position extremely awkward at first, but it does seem to be coming more naturally after a few weeks of practice. I do find that I need to keep my practice sessions very short, because if I let the tension creep in it just leads to more problems.

And it's good to know that the frustration never ends. (I think!)

-- Margaret

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:39 pm

Flute is not for the faint of heart, I was told when I posted
similar questions several years ago. Probably
nothing is the matter with your hands. As everyone
is saying, the Larsen book is very good on holding
these beasties--give it time and patience. His
instructions do work.

jhouse01 · Post by **jhouse01** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:10 pm

Thanks all, for the encouraging words!

Fortunately, I'm a doggedly determined individual (and have a feeling I'll need that trait!)

Re: the right thumb--it didn't seem to be, at first, an option in Grey's book--but he does mention that some players use it. I'll give it a try.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:22 pm

Great that you're applying yourself to good position early in the game. Don't let it stop you from having fun, though!

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:55 pm

This is something that comes with time -- I don't think there's another substitute. Larsen's method of holding the flute works very well -- for Larsen and those who are built like him (which I happen to be). I wouldn't put too much stock into holding the flute exactly as Grey instructs; think of it only as a guide. You also might want to search this forum using "Rockstro grip". It's another way of holding the flute.

I had all sorts of problems holding the flute for about a year. I also had trouble re-finding my embouchure after every breath, also for a year. There are all sorts of things that really NEED to become second nature, and time and practice are the only things that will do it.

A lesson now with a good teacher will ge a great benefit. Every few months at this point will likely allow you to progress much faster than going it alone.

Sounds like you've got a great attitude -- best of luck.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:09 pm

oh...yeah
while you are waiting for your hands/lips to start working again read these.

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/
http://www.firescribble.net/flute/index.html
http://www.theflow.org.uk/
http://www.woodenflute.com/

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:22 pm

Don't sweat it. I went through the same process when I started a year ago - I was *sure* that I was going to drop the flute. I still occasionally need to remind myself to relax my grip a bit, but dropping the flute is no longer a worry (I never *did* drop it, even in the early/clumsy days).

Give yourself time, and be patient. And don't get discouraged on days that your embouchure seems to desert you and you feel like you have ten thumbs. You *will* get better if you stick with it. Even an naturally untalented musician like me improves with time and practice - I'm a noticeably better player than I was 6 months back! - and most folks will improve faster than I have.

Just remember that you're doing this for fun, relax, and enjoy the trip.

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:49 pm

Get a polymer flute - then dropping becomes a virtue and part of the "craic"

I've done this to a few folks locally more than once and they buy it each time.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:27 pm

An exercise I find helpful:

Hold the flute at three points,
the lip/chin, the left hand fulcrum, and the rt pinky.

This should be more or less stable.

Now add the left thumb and the rt thumb--more stable,
very stable.

Now in the most relaxed way you can, place the
remaining fingers on the tone holes.

This gets you a solid grip and very relaxed playing-fingers,
because they are doing no work in holding the flute.

When you find yourself tensing, start again from
the beginning. Again, again....

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:04 am

There are as many ways of holding the flute as there are players. Look at Matt Molloy, Catherine McEvoy, Harry Bradley and Cathal McConnell. All are different.
People say that you can't rest the business end of the flute on your shoulder and bend your neck like Catherine and Harry and still breathe adequately - but I have not seen them ever to have a problem in that regard. They're still breathing and still making beautiful music.
It would be nice to hear from one of these very accomplished players and know whether they ever gave much thought to "proper position" or "correct grip."
Teachers often talk about holding the flute and "proper position" when they don't know what else to say about music and flute-playing. Some fiddle teachers insist that the left wrist curl in so that the left hand is curved over the fingerboard. But as for Kevin Burke, Martin Hayes, and Tola Custy, most of the time the fiddle neck sits on their palm.
When you've enough time spent learning the tunes you'll naturally hold it right and be relaxed enough to move your hand where you want it to go. So my advice is just to play, learn tunes, and enjoy the time you spend with your flute.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:27 am

You've got a nice flute to start on, so that helps immensely in the begining. And, as others have said, it will feel natural and comfortable in time, just don't strain yourself. Use what works for your hands and body (some people like piper's grip-I do on the bottom hand, standard on top).

Here are some more links to Chiff topics on it, if you get tired, or when your embouchure gives out:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=37706

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=36996

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=33731

seamasL · Post by **seamasL** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:28 am

Hi J,

I got my flute on August the 15 so that puts me just a little bit ahead of you in experience. That doesn’t mean that I think I can give you any advice at all it just means that I can share with you that they are right when they say that soon you will no longer think about dropping the flute anymore, I don’t. I did what you are doing, I got Grey’s book and followed his advice as closely as I could…it worked. I practice in a room with a carpet but even at that I was worried about dropping it. Now it seems a long time since I even thought about it.
Now I am working on the left wrist. I try to keep my left elbow close to my body and the flute low on my left index finger with the left fingers arched. I am trying to keep the wrist as straight as I can to build the habit and to try and avoid a sore left wrist. I play a little and then put the flute down for a little and then pick it up and reestablish the hold, maybe it will become instinctive after a while…I hope so. Anyway that is the plan and with that and long tones I am making good progress. Good luck!!
Jim.

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