Thoughts on posting

[flutefry]

I’d like to make some general comments on some potential underlying reasons for why some things occur on the board as a way of fostering discussion. I am hoping that the moderators will allow a new thread with a posting that contains material similar to that which I posted yesterday, but is more general.

I think that it is easy to assume that everyone on the board has similar motivations, and thus to assume that everyone will react similarly to opinions, expert or otherwise. So a person wishing to improve as fast and effectively as possible probably would be well advised to follow a specific, well-understood course of action. If someone asks for advice on the best way to proceed, I’d hope that those with experience would share it. But many of us on this board play the flute for fun, however we define it. Fun might be collecting flutes, getting out of the house, traveling, playing at sessions, starting something the whole family can do, a distraction from work, or just seeing what it’s like to play the Irish flute. Many of us lack time, talent, motivation, organization, or drive to achieve vague competence let alone mastery. Even more realistically, some of us can hope at best for a not too embarrassing incompetence. But given the variety of people on the board, one size of advice does not fit all, and there is something to be said for tailoring one’s advice, or specifying the intended audience.

I’d claim that the members of this board are intelligent enough to decide for themselves which arguments are likely to be right, which to be wrong, who is more or less authorative, and who has what kind of experience. If this is right, then people do not need to be “protected” from wrong arguments, or to have the “correct” argument repeated many times.

I’d suggest that folks try making an argument, putting it out there, and seeing what happens. You will reach some people who say nothing, and you won’t reach others who are very vocal. You can rest happy that you made your best argument, and that if people don’t act in what you see as their own best interests, well, that’s their problem. We need experts. The board wouldn’t be the same without them, and would be greatly less valuable if they didn’t take the time to make their points. I have enormous respect for the experts who are secure enough to pass on what they know, without needing to come across as experts. They put the information out there, and it’s up to us to appreciate their wisdom and experience.

There is a zen saying that when the master is ready, the student will come. I take this to mean that a skilled master looks inward to see why the message isn’t getting across, rather than blaming the student. Of course the converse is also true. Good students ask themselves what they can do to improve their understanding. A professor I know has a cartoon on her door in which the student is saying to the professor “You’ll find my grade on this test is a pretty fair reflection of your abilities as a teacher”. Most of us could do better at teaching, and learning.

I’d claim that no one should have to defend a preference, anymore than anyone should have to defend a preference for liking chocolate more than vanilla, or for liking this actor more than that actor. You can make your own choices, but have to accept that others might make different choices. Someone might choose to buy many flutes, to spend 15 years remaining at a modest level of accomplishment, to spend more on flutes than lessons, to play on street corners, or whatever, but it is their choice. It’s fine to make another choice, and to say why you are making another choice, but I think it doesn’t achieve anything to insist on the rightness of your choice, or the wrongness of their choice. It is after all, a choice, and the thing about life is that everyone gets to make their own choices, and to deal with the consequences of their choices.

I think that some ways of posting have the effect, whether intended or not, of stifling discussion. One of these ways are to insist that only what experts say matters. Another way is to just keep making the argument over and over again. Another way is to ridicule people for being wrong. Another way is to attack people rather than their arguments. One can learn a lot, even if it’s only what to avoid, from listening to non-experts. It’s too much to hope that everyone will know in advance which of their contributions are wheat, and which are chaff. But without some chaff, there is no wheat. So stifling contributions, diminishes the effectiveness of the board, and that’s a pity. The same folks who are making their own minds up about the worth of arguments are making minds up about the personalities, strengths, and weaknesses of the posters.

My two cents. Happy fluting, however you define it.

Best,
Hugh

[greenspiderweb]

Again, thanks for the insightful and good thoughts, Hugh.

[talasiga]

I think that some ways of posting have the effect, whether intended or not, of stifling discussion. One of these ways are to insist that only what experts say matters. Another way is to just keep making the argument over and over again. Another way is to ridicule people for being wrong. Another way is to attack people rather than their arguments. One can learn a lot, even if it’s only what to avoid, from listening to non-experts. It’s too much to hope that everyone will know in advance which of their contributions are wheat, and which are chaff. But without some chaff, there is no wheat.

It takes an expert to know one and it also takes an "expert" to know one too.

I have never had a problem about people here ridiculing me for being wrong. Mostly they ridicule me for being right.

I trust that my posts are beyond considerations of chaff and wheat. My posts are meant to be germ.

(er, BTW, flutefry, I don't quite know the recent thing that gives rise to your topic, but I second your post. Well said.)

[Whistlin'Dixie]

Some good thoughts, there Hugh.
Bravo!

M

[mutepointe]

i don't know what caused this thread either. i understood your position. i bet there are also other positions of merit too, some that disagree and some that are just different. i'm a big believer in "there are more sides to a story than there are people who are privy to the story." i've learned about everything that i know about the flute from this site (thank you very much) and even learned from the differences of opinion. and believe me, you folks have opinions. i feel that some of you are arguing about some things that may have occurred ages ago and not just about the thread that happens to be the location of the most recent difference. it would be nice if everyone could always remain civil and understanding but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

o yes, one more thing. your folks sure can talk about embouchures. is there anything that hasn't been said about embouchures?

[jim stone]

Well said, Hugh.

There's another side to this, I think. Discussion can't be stifled
if folks damn the torpedoes. ask their questions and say
what they think. One can't expect everybody to be reasonable
in how they post. We are all of us responsible for whether
discussion is stifled, IMO.

[C age ing]

It takes an expert to know one and it also takes an "expert" to know one too.



The problem on this side of the pond, we have a truism, told to me by a Metropolitan Police Motor School Skid Pan Coach.
He said, "Please don't call me an expert, after all 'ex' means past it and 'pert' is a drip under pressure."
Bill

[GaryKelly]

He said, "Please don't call me an expert, after all 'ex' means past it and 'pert' is a drip under pressure."

Spurt. Spurt is a drip under pressure.

[Cynth]

He said, "Please don't call me an expert, after all 'ex' means past it and 'pert' is a drip under pressure."

Spurt. Spurt is a drip under pressure.

Thanks. Now I don't have to keep trying to figure that one out!

[peeplj]

I'm not sure what prompted this post--I suppose there was a discussion which I missed somewhere down the line.

I do know from my own experience that here on the boards there is often an apparent concensus of opinion. Sometimes these are pretty much spot-on with the real musicians I play with in real life, and other times they don't apply so well.

There are many knowledgeable persons on these boards from a wide variety of locations and backgrounds. They can be--and often have been--a great source of information and valuable feedback.

Just be aware that there may be times when the opinions here on the board are of more use, and sometimes of less use.

--James

[Denny]

Just be aware that there may be times when the opinions here on the board are of more use, and sometimes of less use.

Any attempt to compare this board to real life should be taken with a grain of sand...
Ah, I mean salt.

[Doug_Tipple]

Just be aware that there may be times when the opinions here on the board are of more use, and sometimes of less use.

Any attempt to compare this board to real life should be taken with a grain of sand...
Ah, I mean salt.

I think you mean moon dust.

[jim stone]

I confess the board seem to me to be like real life--a mixed blessing.
Of course in real life the moderators carry guns.

'Just be aware that there may be times when the opinions here on the board are of more use, and sometimes of less use.'

Not to worry.

[Denny]

Just be aware that there may be times when the opinions here on the board are of more use, and sometimes of less use.

Any attempt to compare this board to real life should be taken with a grain of sand...
Ah, I mean salt.

I think you mean moon dust.

moon dust
star dust
dust to dust

It jus' keeps goin'

[Chiffed]

Thanks, Hugh. Opinions, discussions, and different viewpoints are great, just as long as we avoid the bees in bonnets, etc.

We're pretty well behaved compared surlier forums, and I love the fact that newbie questions usually get friendly answers with links, diagrams, fingering charts, and a free car-wash.