cylindrical metal simple system flutes

[mcdafydd]

Hi all,

I'm interested in learning more about antique silver/nickel, cylindrical, simple system flutes. Like Clinton's "Flute for India", but with a cylindrical bore and a Boehm-style tapered headjoint. Would I be right to assume that there were probably many more instruments like this produced than Clinton's invention? How could I research instruments like this, or makers who possibly produced them? And would they likely be dated between around 1850-1930 or so?

I looked briefly at the Dayton C. Miller collection, but didn't notice any way to search by design characteristics.

Thanks for any info!
David

[david quinn]

I have just bought one from Ebay a Samual Barnett.

[Jayhawk]

Is that the eBay picture or do you have it already? If you have it, how does it sound and play?

Eric

[david quinn]

Its the Ebay picture i should be able to give yous a low down on it next week hopefully once its been repadded.

Their is a set of Metal cylindrical flutes in Scotland made by the Flute makers guild London for H y Potter and co i have had a shot of one it plays brilliant all notes very loud and clear.

I have been pestering the owner for months now to sell me it but hes reluctant need to keep at him

[Jayhawk]

I can't wait for your review. Any chance you could post the eBay number so I could find it? Just curious how it was listed and all...I have an interest in all the non-wooden simple system flutes.

Eric

[Terry McGee]

This the kind of thing you mean, mcdafydd?



(from my "unusual flutes" page). Here are the notes:

A cylindrical (Boehm) bore simple-system flute in metal by Chapelain, Fernand and Co, La Couture, 1890-1917, that came up on Ebay. Interesting features include:

The pad of the long F key skulking under the touch of the short F key

The very elongated F# hole

The F# sharpening key (touch above the Fnatural key, pad at right of elongated F# hole). Shades of Tulou!

The straps soldered to the body to provide sufficient depth to the tone (and possibly finger) holes.

The Bb and C holes being on the top (for the same reason as the Long F - it suits rod'n'axle keying)

The high E trill, pad near the tuning slide socket, touch at R1.

Note just how far up that F# sharpening pad is, even though the F# hole is so very big. Could be that there is a relatively small hole under that pad, and that the location is determined by having to avoid fouling the fingers on their holes.

There were of course the multikey flutes such as the Carte 1851, 1867, Radcliff, Clinton, etc - I don't know if they fall within your area of interest.

Terry

[Jayhawk]

Yep Terry, I like those things...don't know why. I'm curious about David's eBay find as well (5 key, does it have a tuning slide at all?) and all those original ebonite beasts, too.

Eric

[cocusflute]

Yes, but Terry: Did you buy it on EBay or just get the auction notes? If you did buy it, how does it play? If you didn't buy it, did it sell and what was the final price?
Youth wants to know....
Thanks

[Terry McGee]

I just grabbed the image as it went by - seemed too interesting to let it evaporate into cyberspace. So I haven't had the pleasure of playing the beast. The notes are my own rationalisation of its operation.

Coincidentally, I received a phone call two days ago from a young French woman who had acquired another one of these, this one marked Siour-Chapelain. Siour was the successor to Chapelain (the maker of the one illustrated), and started in La Couture before moving or also opening in Paris. A workforce of 180 reported - compare that with the few souls who can be seen meandering around the premises at Rudall Carte's in my images of their shop!

The young lady had recently completed an instrument maker/repairer course and was working on restoring it as a real-world project. We spoke for about an hour - fun to chat with a young person immersing herself in your favourite obsession. We struggled a bit with nomenclature, some in English, some in French and a good proportion in Ozpaddy Franglais. Anyway, she vowed to forward progress reports. If anything interesting comes up I'll pass it on.

Our Clinton studies are forcing us to look sideways at other flute developments immediately post Boehm, so I'll also keep you abreast of anything interesting we turn up.

Terry

[mcdafydd]

I have just bought one from Ebay a Samual Barnett.

I saw that one and was wondering what the toneholes were like. The Chapelain that Terry has pictured below has plates soldered on like Clinton's flute. From the picture of yours, I can't tell if there are any such plates. I thought toneholes needed a certain amount of depth (more then the thickness of a metal tube) as Terry mentions on the unusual flute page. I can't remember what else I've read about that in the past, or for that matter, whether it was about wooden or metal flutes.

Do you have any information on Samual Barnett?

[mcdafydd]

This the kind of thing you mean, mcdafydd?

The F# sharpening key (touch above the Fnatural key, pad at right of elongated F# hole). Shades of Tulou!

...

There were of course the multikey flutes such as the Carte 1851, 1867, Radcliff, Clinton, etc - I don't know if they fall within your area of interest.

Terry

I should remember that your website is almost always a good first place to look, Terry! That's exactly what I meant. I've also been in contact with the person who purchased that Siour-Chapelain and was just getting ready to contact you about it! Since then I've been on a rampage trying to figure out more about them. Thanks for explaining that F# sharpening key.

I was particularly interested in the idea of a metal flute that had the Boehm bore/headjoint, but a simple system arrangement of keys. After seeing this flute, I had begun to imagine that some people might have liked the idea of such an instrument after 1847, and that perhaps many more instruments like this might exist. I think you had told me a while back that only a handful of Clinton's flutes were known to be floating around (at least in the Western world). That makes them pretty hard to get one's hands on!

[Jon C.]

Hi,
Here are two examples from Andrew's collection: One by P Beuscher, Paris, 1914 - 1927
The other probably Thibouville Lamy

[mcdafydd]

Thanks a lot, Jon (and Andrew!!). So, it sounds like there are plenty of these things floating around France, eh? And that several of them date from the early 1900s. Was there still a good amount of interest in the 5-key simple system flute in France at that time?

The stretches on the right hand look pretty good on Andrew's flutes. Did he say anything about their playability and intonation?