Fingers curved or straight?

[jim stone]

I learned to play whistle with my fingers out straight.
This has some advantages, notably it facilitates
half-holing the C natural.

However now I play flute with my fingers curved.

Well, is that OK on whistle? Curved fingers? That is, do good people
play this way? I think I faintly recall that Mary B
does. What do you think?

[Cynth]

You know, I don't see how a person could play the whistle with the fingers straight actually. If I am using both thumbs as supports and the first pad of each finger (the pad between the tip and the first joint) I cannot make my fingers go straight without forcing them to with great tension.

Perhaps the length of our thumbs relative to our other fingers is different. I did read that men's and women's fingers are differently proportioned---although what I mainly remember is that women tend to have a shorter ring finger than men.

I have not heard that one should play with straight fingers. I guess my particular tutorial just said they would be gently curved, some (the middle finger) probably more than others.

I am currently trying to retrain myself to play in a relaxed way because of wrist and fore arm sorness which has now healed. I am attempting to let my fingers assume whatever sort of curve they want in my effort to just cover the hole and seal it without pressing down. I think I have made some progress, but that would depend on which day you asked me. Quite honestly, the whistle is currently driving me pretty close to insane.

Oh, you asked what do good people do! Okay, one thing is that the booklet with Brid O'Donohue's CD has quite a few pictures in it of her and other people playing the whistle. It looks as though all of their fingers are curved.

Oh, I just went to her website. I hadn't seen the photo gallery before. I can't look at all the pictures right this moment, but there are definitely pictures of whistle players there. I'm sure they are good ones.
http://www.bridodonohue.com/gallery/
This is a nice one:

Here's a picture of Micho Russell:

Here's a picture of Mick O'Brien and Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh playing a whistle duet:

[Congratulations]

When you say that your fingers are curved, do you mean that you're using the tips of your fingers to cover the holes rather than the pads, which you would use if your fingers were straight?

[Cynth]

When you say that your fingers are curved, do you mean that you're using the tips of your fingers to cover the holes rather than the pads, which you would use if your fingers were straight?

Congrats, I know you are addressing that question to Jim. But I am using the pads of my fingers, and my fingers are gently curved. Perhaps I am taking the word "straight" too literally.

[Sylvester]

Sorry for the off topic but, anyone knows what is Mick playing with?

[Cayden]

Sorry for the off topic but, anyone knows what is Mick playing with?

In concert they usually have the Burke Bs

Oh, I just went to her website. I hadn't seen the photo gallery before. I can't look at all the pictures right this moment, but there are definitely pictures of whistle players there. I'm sure they are good ones.
http://www.bridodonohue.com/gallery/
This is a nice one:

That's Mickie Cleary, he learned to play with Josie Hayes during the 50s. He always plays C whistle, he has a drawer full of them at home (a small pink cottage along the mainroad with a lovely old style 'haggard'). He is nice man, you will never see him play outside the house though, it took Brid an awful lot of coaxing to get him to the classes and play for the young ones.

Aargh, photogalleries. Brid has a knack for twisting the arm of reluctant performers. Straight fingers here:

[jim stone]

Hi, Well, I guess I have long thumbs. Anyhow
for me, straight is straight. My fingers are quite
straight, playing the whistle; I'm coming down on
the pads, sometimes a bit in from the tip.

When I play curved, I'm closer to the finger tips.
Nothing radical, however.

I notice that the fellow on WTA's clip of 'Titanic' music,
who is pretty impressive, is playing curved.

My intitial teacher and some books (this was awhile ago)
said straight, but I'm noticing people (as in all these
photos) playing curved. I'm getting better on the whistle
from playing flute, and so I'd like to go one way
or the other.

Best, Jim

[talasiga]

....
Perhaps I am taking the word "straight" too literally.

The word "literally" and Cynthia rings a bell for me, I don't know why.

I have been playing whistles for 45 years or more now (not much ITM though) and its always "straight" fingers. Cynthia, of course you can't use finger tips and have straight style. It means you musts use the other pad. Which other pad you use will depend on the nature of the whistle body, your hands and so on. My father also plays "straight" and so do continental Indian trained players.

"Straight" decrease chances of RSI and also facilitates playing through the body (hips and abdomen/diaphragm). Finger tip playing encourages shoulder and neck tension. I suppose not an issue if you only play one ditty daily for 5 minutes.

When I play whistle I play up to 90 minutes at a time. I couldn't do that with fingertip playing.

[shadeclan]

For myself, I find it's more a case of "relaxed" and "stretched" rather than "curved" and "straight". Normally when I play, my fingers are relaxed and slightly curved. When I need to half-hole something, I stretch that particular finger out straight without removing it from the hole. When I do this, the pad of my finger comes off the hole just enough to hit the proper note. This is also the technique that McCullough recommends.

[Cynth]

Peter, thanks for identifying the gentleman in the photo. I thought he looked like a nice fellow.

....
Perhaps I am taking the word "straight" too literally.

The word "literally" and Cynthia rings a bell for me, I don't know why.

Well, just say what you mean and mean what you say. It's quite simple really!

I have been playing whistles for 45 years or more now (not much ITM though) and its always "straight" fingers. Cynthia, of course you can't use finger tips and have straight style. It means you musts use the other pad. Which other pad you use will depend on the nature of the whistle body, your hands and so on. My father also plays "straight" and so do continental Indian trained players.

"Straight" decrease chances of RSI and also facilitates playing through the body (hips and abdomen/diaphragm). Finger tip playing encourages shoulder and neck tension. I suppose not an issue if you only play one ditty daily for 5 minutes.

When I play whistle I play up to 90 minutes at a time. I couldn't do that with fingertip playing.

Okay, now I clearly stated that I am not using my fingertips. I am using the first pad of each finger, the pad between the tip and the first joint.

My fingers would be way more curved than they are if I were using the tips, they are gently curved.

My thumb comes up to the middle joint of my index finger, maybe not quite that far. I don't know if your thumb is longer than that. My ring finger is shorter than my index finger. If my index finger comes halfway between the tip and first joint of my middle finger, my ring finger comes up about a third of the way. My pinkie comes halfway between the first and second joints of my ring finger. I have stopped using it to help stablize the whistle because its shortness was causing me to bend my wrist in a sharp way.

In the picture of Peter, he says he is playing with straight fingers. And they do look straight. For me to hold my hand in the way he is holding his right (bottom) hand is very uncomfortable and involves pinching the whistle.

I did try using the piper's grip on the bottom hand, in which the pad between the first and second joints of the fingers covers the hole. This was a very comfortable position but I just could not seem to seal the holes without pressing down and introducing tension. I know annie has had success with this on the high whistle.

I'm sure the Indian trained players have a good method, but unfortunately I don't have one here to show me what he would do if he had my particular hands!

I am improving at identifying tension and eliminating it. I think my gently curved fingers are relaxed. My wrist position is much improved now that I don't try to use my pinkie to stabilize. I am constantly watching for tension in my thumbs. My problem is that when I just lay my finger on a hole gently to seal it off without really pressing down, then that finger moves very easily when I play another note. If I press hard, there is no problem. But I have had some success so that means it can be done. I just have to keep practicing.

I haven't gotten to the point of playing a dang ditty!

[lisdoonvarna]

Joanie Madden says straight fingers. She was teaching a mini workshop athe Irish Heritage Festival in St. Paul. IMHO there has to be some curve to some of the fingers because -and call me crazy-unless your fingers are all the same length they won't line up on a straight row of holes!
Lisdoonvarna

[Congratulations]

To me, "straight" does not mean "unnaturally straight." It's relative.

[dapple]

Coincidentally, last week I started experimenting with making my fingers straighter to see what difference that would make and found that my rolls sound crisper that way.

[talasiga]

Joanie Madden says straight fingers. She was teaching a mini workshop athe Irish Heritage Festival in St. Paul. IMHO there has to be some curve to some of the fingers because -and call me crazy-unless your fingers are all the same length they won't line up on a straight row of holes!

Lisdoonvarna and Cynth,
I don't know why your idea of straight fingering is premised on the same part of each finger covering the hole. Subject to the nature of the tube, your particular finger shape and length, and your particular kinesthetics, generally a straight finger approach will result in
OOO OOX and OOX OOO being covered by some part of the finger pad most proximal to the top finger pad
and the other fingers will cover at a point on them a little distal from the top pads.
If you do this you will notice your hands approach the tube at a diagonal rather than horizontal.

Its just observable fact if you actually play the thing a bit rather than cerebellating about it. I NEVER SAID THAT THE SAME PART OF THE FINGERS MUST COVER THE HOLES WHILE YOU KEEP THE FINGERS STRAIGHT. I am neither Indian nor Irish trained. Just been playing them and watching others play. There is an ancient affinity between the tone hole layout and the human digits whether you employ curved or straight application. Discover its joy by playing the damn thing rather than concocting counter arguments based on an impractical application of something half digested.

[raindog1970]

I started playing with my fingers curved, until I had to learn piper fingering for low whistles.
Now I play all whistles with my fingers flat, which isn't as much of a change when I have to switch to piper fingering.