Latin help?

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:48 pm

While wondering around in an undisclosed location, I found an old green book today. It's about Christopher Columbus but the front says "SICUT PATRIBUS SIT DEUS NOBIS BOSTONIA DONATA AD 1630 CIVITATIS REGIMINE DONATA AD 1822".

I have no idea what it's saying other than "God" (DEUS) and "Boston" (BOSTONIA).

I'd wait and take it to a Latin professor tomorrow (there are a few of them here), but I'm impatient. Can any of you Latinites decipher it?

ShadowBG625 · Post by **ShadowBG625** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:26 pm

It says (to the best of my translation), God be with us, for He was with our fathers, then maybe something about the control of the community. Latin is still rusty.

Edit : http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-mabos.html

should explain everything, I think.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:37 pm

ShadowBG625 wrote:It says (to the best of my translation), God be with us, for He was with our fathers, then maybe something about the control of the community. Latin is still rusty.

Edit : http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-mabos.html

should explain everything, I think.

Ooooh. Thank you!

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:43 am

As this Country was given to us under God AD 1630, so this (Book) is donated to the City, AD 1822.

Sorry, I missed "Bostonia"!

As this Patrimony of Boston was given to us under God AD 1630, so this (Book) is donated to the City, AD 1822.

SteveShaw · Post by **SteveShaw** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:13 am

Being able to understand Latin is a sine qua non in my opinion.

Stevius Shavius, defunctus ("O" level Latin, grade 4, 1967

)

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:02 am

SteveShaw wrote:Being able to understand Latin is a sine qua non in my opinion.

Stevius Shavius, defunctus ("O" level Latin, grade 4, 1967 )

I considered studying Latin so I could understand Ave Maria and O Film Et Filiae (I know I probably spelled that wrong), but I haven't worked it into my schedule yet...

SteveShaw · Post by **SteveShaw** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:07 am

Just work on translating Joseph's signature lines. There's a whole (suspect) Latin course in there...

gonzo914 · Post by **gonzo914** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:25 pm

Cranberry wrote:
SteveShaw wrote:Being able to understand Latin is a sine qua non in my opinion.

Stevius Shavius, defunctus ("O" level Latin, grade 4, 1967 )
I considered studying Latin so I could understand Ave Maria and O Film Et Filiae (I know I probably spelled that wrong), but I haven't worked it into my schedule yet...

It's not really a slow day at work, but I've been left with wholly inadequate supervision, so I would be lax in my pastoral duties if I did not help the lad out here.

Ave Maria -- Shubert wrote:Ave Maria
Gratia plena
Maria, gratia plena
Maria, gratia plena
Ave, ave dominus
Dominus tecum
Benedicta tu in mulieribus
Et benedictus
Et benedictus fructus ventris
Ventris tuae, Jesus.
Ave Maria
Ave Maria
Mater Dei
Ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Ora pro nobis
Ora, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Nunc et in hora mortis
Et in hora mortis nostrae
Et in hora mortis nostrae
Et in hora mortis nostrae
Ave Maria

Latin [i]Ave Maria[/i] wrote:Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum, benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen

English [i]Hail Mary[/i] wrote:Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

SteveShaw · Post by **SteveShaw** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:34 pm

gonzo914 wrote:
English [i]Hail Mary[/i] wrote:Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Well, I'm shattered. I said thousands of them on me pair of rosary beads and every time I said "Blessed art thou, a monk swimming, and blessed is the fruit of thy wound Jesus." I did always wonder why anyone would give a name to an injury.

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:40 pm

Hunc ornato mundi, nolo perdere
Video flagare omnia res,
Audio clamare homines

Nunc exigitur mundi et astorum lumen
Nunc concipitur mali et hominis crimen
Tristitat et lacryimis, magnis est dolor
De terraque maribus, magnis est clamor

O Caritas, O caritas, nobis semper sit amore!
Nos perriture mortem salutamus.
Sola resurvit vita.

Cat Stevens

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:00 pm

gonzo914 wrote:
Cranberry wrote:
SteveShaw wrote:Being able to understand Latin is a sine qua non in my opinion.

Stevius Shavius, defunctus ("O" level Latin, grade 4, 1967 )
I considered studying Latin so I could understand Ave Maria and O Film Et Filiae (I know I probably spelled that wrong), but I haven't worked it into my schedule yet...
It's not really a slow day at work, but I've been left with wholly inadequate supervision, so I would be lax in my pastoral duties if I did not help the lad out here.

Ave Maria -- Shubert wrote:Ave Maria
Gratia plena
Maria, gratia plena
Maria, gratia plena
Ave, ave dominus
Dominus tecum
Benedicta tu in mulieribus
Et benedictus
Et benedictus fructus ventris
Ventris tuae, Jesus.
Ave Maria
Ave Maria
Mater Dei
Ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Ora pro nobis
Ora, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Nunc et in hora mortis
Et in hora mortis nostrae
Et in hora mortis nostrae
Et in hora mortis nostrae
Ave Maria

Latin [i]Ave Maria[/i] wrote:Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum, benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen

English [i]Hail Mary[/i] wrote:Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Thank you. I already know the translation of Ave Maria, of course (it's so common). What I was getting at was a better understanding of the words.

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:16 pm

What part of the words are you having the trouble with understanding?

Slan,
D.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:19 pm

I meant understand the Latin as Latin, i.e. like you might want to learn German to read Goethe or Buber, in order to understand the writings in their original language rather than rely on English translations, even though plenty of English translations exist.

Is it really that confusing? I've been making an effort to be clearer and I thought I was very clear with that but apparently not.

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:34 pm

Cranberry wrote:I meant understand the Latin as Latin, i.e. like you might want to learn German to read Goethe or Buber, in order to understand the writings in their original language rather than rely on English translations, even though plenty of English translations exist.

Is it really that confusing? I've been making an effort to be clearer and I thought I was very clear with that but apparently not.

Being a well known prayer, I don't see the problem in the language. There are no deep inner meanings.

FFS Cran, it ain't Goethe or Buber. It's the "Hail Mary" whichever way you weigh it up, whatever language you read it in.

Having said that, Schuberts version sometimes makes me think that there might be a God out there..but I doubt it

Slan,
D.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:54 pm

dubhlinn wrote:Being a well known prayer, I don't see the problem in the language. There are no deep inner meanings.

It may be a well known prayer in Ireland, but I never heard of it until I was in my late teens (a couple years ago). It's new to me.