Quite a few people have suggested I get a low D whistle to carry around and learn on, to transfer to the flute. Some even suggested leaving the flute alone until I'm doing ok on the whistle.
Any ideas on a good quality low D whistle? I like the sound of the Black Diamond, but it's high D I think? I'd much prefer have a low D. (Incidentally, is that what the guy's playing here http://www.kerrywhistles.com/movies/kate1.mov ?)
I'd also like to buy a good one and learn well on it, rather than a cheap one as a 'toy'. Usual things required; volume, good tone and tuning, nice 'pop' (when you can play it well enough), and perhaps tuneable.
Any advice appreciated.
Edit: Sorry for newbie questions, but how is the top octave achieved - hole in the back like a Recorder? Also, are whistles strictly 2 octave?
Good Low D whistle..?
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Michael31856
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I can't advise you on a low D.
The second octave on the whistle is achieved by overblowing. There are only six holes on a whistle and they are all on top. You can overblow a recorder to the second octave without uncovering the thumb hole although it usually isn't as in tune as the whistle. I sometimes overblow to the second octave on my recorder when the note is quick and the normal fingering change to and from the adjacent notes is complex.
I can overblow a couple of my cheapie whistles to the third octave but the third octave D is too shrill and piercing to be useable. On the high D cheapies, the second octave C# (and sometimes the B) fall into that category as well. Higher end whistles with a good player may be two+ octave instruments but I play my cheapies as one octave plus a sixth instruments.
Welcome to the wonderful world of whistling!
The second octave on the whistle is achieved by overblowing. There are only six holes on a whistle and they are all on top. You can overblow a recorder to the second octave without uncovering the thumb hole although it usually isn't as in tune as the whistle. I sometimes overblow to the second octave on my recorder when the note is quick and the normal fingering change to and from the adjacent notes is complex.
I can overblow a couple of my cheapie whistles to the third octave but the third octave D is too shrill and piercing to be useable. On the high D cheapies, the second octave C# (and sometimes the B) fall into that category as well. Higher end whistles with a good player may be two+ octave instruments but I play my cheapies as one octave plus a sixth instruments.
Welcome to the wonderful world of whistling!
The Walrus
What would a wild walrus whistle if a walrus could whistle wild?
The second mouse may get the cheese but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired.
What would a wild walrus whistle if a walrus could whistle wild?
The second mouse may get the cheese but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired.
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Bridges-PdP
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since you asked...
Others will probably recommend this also, but if I were you, I'd start out on one of those high or soprano D whistles. Get comfortable with the musical aspects of it (soprano D) first, before moving to the low D which requires significantly more work in terms of fingering due to its size.
Getting to your goal is going to take some practice and personal development and in this regard a little success along the way makes a huge difference. Starting easy and working up will be more encouraging.
I just recently purchased my first low D, it's a Dixon non-tunable. The fingering isn't impossible by any means, but the breath control requirements on the bottom end along with the significant finger stretch can be discouraging for a while.
I have medium to small hands and wanted a low whistle that others found to have an easier stretch. I also wanted something on the inexpensive end of the low whistle range in case I decided that low D wasn't my bag.
So...to summarize...I would..start with a soprano D, learn a few tunes, play with it for 2-3 months and then venture toward the low D so that the big fingering is the only aspect you really need to concentrate on.
Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, if flute is where you want to be, and you're located in a part of the world that has flute teachers, you might just speak with someone that makes a living by teaching others to play the flute. That person may just suggest you pick up a used flute or rent one and get started. You'd be bypassing the whistle world altogether, but you'd get to your goal sooner.
Getting to your goal is going to take some practice and personal development and in this regard a little success along the way makes a huge difference. Starting easy and working up will be more encouraging.
I just recently purchased my first low D, it's a Dixon non-tunable. The fingering isn't impossible by any means, but the breath control requirements on the bottom end along with the significant finger stretch can be discouraging for a while.
I have medium to small hands and wanted a low whistle that others found to have an easier stretch. I also wanted something on the inexpensive end of the low whistle range in case I decided that low D wasn't my bag.
So...to summarize...I would..start with a soprano D, learn a few tunes, play with it for 2-3 months and then venture toward the low D so that the big fingering is the only aspect you really need to concentrate on.
Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, if flute is where you want to be, and you're located in a part of the world that has flute teachers, you might just speak with someone that makes a living by teaching others to play the flute. That person may just suggest you pick up a used flute or rent one and get started. You'd be bypassing the whistle world altogether, but you'd get to your goal sooner.
Scott Bridges
Auxilio ab alto
Auxilio ab alto
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IDAwHOa
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- Tell us something.: I play whistles. I sell whistles. This seems just a BIT excessive to the cause. A sentence or two is WAY less than 100 characters.
If you are interested in low whistle, get a low whistle. There is not really much mysterious about them. Just bigger versions with bigger holes and wider finger spreads.
Ah, the finger spread. That COULD get you, but if you are thinking your hands are big enough for an Irish flute, this should not be an issue for you.
There are lots of great low D's out there. Lots of metal ones and a few wooden. My personal favorites are the Goldie Overton (aluminum) and Bleazey (wooden). These are on the expensive side. The Howard and Kerry are fine whistles too.
Ah, the finger spread. That COULD get you, but if you are thinking your hands are big enough for an Irish flute, this should not be an issue for you.
There are lots of great low D's out there. Lots of metal ones and a few wooden. My personal favorites are the Goldie Overton (aluminum) and Bleazey (wooden). These are on the expensive side. The Howard and Kerry are fine whistles too.
Steven - IDAwHOa - Wood Rocks
"If you keep asking questions.... You keep getting answers." - Miss Frizzle - The Magic School Bus
"If you keep asking questions.... You keep getting answers." - Miss Frizzle - The Magic School Bus
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Ostekjeks
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There is low whistles out there with a hole pattern where the bottom hole is far away from its neighbours. I've played a whistle like this, and I found it uncomfortable and hard. The Kerry whistles has an even spacing (on the Songbird low D model, for sure), and I think this will help you in order to learn to play and enjoy the low whistle. The Kerry Songbird low D is a great whistle, too, so be sure to check it out. There's movies and clips on Phil's site. There's a thread here where you'll find a picture of lots of low whistles together, so you can see the spacing differences for yourself. Maybe you'll find the offset lowest hole to your liking, maybe because you use your pinky, but I like even spacing, so I can use the piper's grip, which I like.
That's my opinion. I don't have terribly small hands either.
That's my opinion. I don't have terribly small hands either.
Re: Good Low D whistle..?
OK, Lord knows I'm not one to be offering advice, but . . .
Deciding what instrument you want to play and which of them to purchase is a daunting prospect for a newbie. In the best of all possible worlds, i.e., the one which has readily available and reputable classical instrument teachers (or martial arts), it's only necessary to ask your teacher for instruction, which you then follow. In most of the ITM world, there aren't teachers readily available, so the newbie ends up making complex decisions on his or her own after attempting to glean enough knowledge to do this.
The purchase decision(s) aren't as complicated as in the classical-instrument world. The instruments themselves aren't as scary. As long as you stay away from crap flutes--and with your decision to purchase a Seery, it appears that you have done this--you're going to be fine.
The instruments aren't as uniform, either. They aren't designed to sound as alike as orchestral instruments. They all have particular qualities and sound unique to themselves. This is why whistlers develop WhOA . . . it's an attempt to get a range of expression and find a whistle perfect for each possible circumstance.
Most of the instruments aren't terribly expensive, so you can indulge your WhOA, and possibly even your FlOA, to your heart's content.
Most of the instruments hold their value reasonably well, so that you can sell them fairly readily later. Because of this, you don't need to feel that your decision to buy is a final one--you can always sell it. (Unless it's crap, and you seem to be staying away from that.)
What I'm trying to tell you here is that you should just get some instruments and learn from them, not worrying right now about whether they're The One Perfect Instrument. These aren't the instruments you'll be playing until the day you die.
The usual advice is to get a high D whistle to carry around. They're small, easy to play, and you can learn tunes and techniques on them which transfer directly to the flute. It's a lot easier to work out a tune on a whistle.
You can do that, as well, with a low D, but the low D isn't a pocket instrument at all.
The reasoning behind leaving the flute alone until you're making headway on the whistle makes some sense, but I'm not sure it's necessary. There is going to be a lot of "non-tune-playing" stuff to do on that flute, like just making good tones, that you can work on for several months. If you wait, you'll still have to work on it.
My advice to you? You bought a Seery, so that's good--you've got a decent flute. Now buy a mid-price high D whistle, and, if you think you'll like low, get a low D, as well.
Yes, I think that Black Diamond is a high D. I don't think it's available in a low.
I just got a C and it's already one of my favorites. It plays cleanly through ALL THREE octaves. (I'm going to order a D as soon as I finish writing this and if Mr. Syn made one in every key, I'd be ordering one of each. Maybe two.)
Of all my metal whistles, it's the one that sounds the most like a wooden flute--mellow and warm, not screechy. This might help you when it's time to transfer a tune from one instrument to the other.
But, remember, you don't have to get just one! There are lots of good whistles out there. They all have their joys and foibles. Even cheap ones, but to avoid newbie frustration, I'd get a mid-range, reputable one. [/quote]
To play the second, you just "pressurize" the air a little more. Just tighten up a bit, or sometimes a lot.
You shouldn't listen to a word I say, though, because I'm just a beginner. I did go through the same "buyer's confusional anxiety" stage, though, and I remember how it all worked out in the end.
Deciding what instrument you want to play and which of them to purchase is a daunting prospect for a newbie. In the best of all possible worlds, i.e., the one which has readily available and reputable classical instrument teachers (or martial arts), it's only necessary to ask your teacher for instruction, which you then follow. In most of the ITM world, there aren't teachers readily available, so the newbie ends up making complex decisions on his or her own after attempting to glean enough knowledge to do this.
The purchase decision(s) aren't as complicated as in the classical-instrument world. The instruments themselves aren't as scary. As long as you stay away from crap flutes--and with your decision to purchase a Seery, it appears that you have done this--you're going to be fine.
The instruments aren't as uniform, either. They aren't designed to sound as alike as orchestral instruments. They all have particular qualities and sound unique to themselves. This is why whistlers develop WhOA . . . it's an attempt to get a range of expression and find a whistle perfect for each possible circumstance.
Most of the instruments aren't terribly expensive, so you can indulge your WhOA, and possibly even your FlOA, to your heart's content.
Most of the instruments hold their value reasonably well, so that you can sell them fairly readily later. Because of this, you don't need to feel that your decision to buy is a final one--you can always sell it. (Unless it's crap, and you seem to be staying away from that.)
What I'm trying to tell you here is that you should just get some instruments and learn from them, not worrying right now about whether they're The One Perfect Instrument. These aren't the instruments you'll be playing until the day you die.
I can't imagine why anyone would say this. A low D whistle is just as annoying to carry around as a low D flute. They're roughly the same size.Michael31856 wrote:Quite a few people have suggested I get a low D whistle to carry around and learn on, to transfer to the flute. Some even suggested leaving the flute alone until I'm doing ok on the whistle.
The usual advice is to get a high D whistle to carry around. They're small, easy to play, and you can learn tunes and techniques on them which transfer directly to the flute. It's a lot easier to work out a tune on a whistle.
You can do that, as well, with a low D, but the low D isn't a pocket instrument at all.
The reasoning behind leaving the flute alone until you're making headway on the whistle makes some sense, but I'm not sure it's necessary. There is going to be a lot of "non-tune-playing" stuff to do on that flute, like just making good tones, that you can work on for several months. If you wait, you'll still have to work on it.
My advice to you? You bought a Seery, so that's good--you've got a decent flute. Now buy a mid-price high D whistle, and, if you think you'll like low, get a low D, as well.
Yes, I think that Black Diamond is a high D. I don't think it's available in a low.
I just got a C and it's already one of my favorites. It plays cleanly through ALL THREE octaves. (I'm going to order a D as soon as I finish writing this and if Mr. Syn made one in every key, I'd be ordering one of each. Maybe two.)
Of all my metal whistles, it's the one that sounds the most like a wooden flute--mellow and warm, not screechy. This might help you when it's time to transfer a tune from one instrument to the other.
But, remember, you don't have to get just one! There are lots of good whistles out there. They all have their joys and foibles. Even cheap ones, but to avoid newbie frustration, I'd get a mid-range, reputable one. [/quote]
No, they're not strictly 2 octave. I have cheapies that won't play above the second octave e or f (10 or 11 notes)--at least, they won't play any noise you'd want to make unless there was a fire--but a Burke and that Black Diamond play perfectly through a full 3 octaves.Edit: Sorry for newbie questions, but how is the top octave achieved - hole in the back like a Recorder? Also, are whistles strictly 2 octave?
To play the second, you just "pressurize" the air a little more. Just tighten up a bit, or sometimes a lot.
You shouldn't listen to a word I say, though, because I'm just a beginner. I did go through the same "buyer's confusional anxiety" stage, though, and I remember how it all worked out in the end.
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Michael31856
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Thanks for all the great advice folks - very much appreciated. By the way, the advice to get a whistle to carry around was indeed a High D, not a loooonnnnng Low D.
I've made a decision, based partly upon advice here, partly on re-thinking what I want to do, and partly on finances.
I do want a challenge and a long-term musical 'project', and liked the sound and feel of a flute. I felt whistles were a bit 'toy-ish'. However, having re-listened to a lot of my favourite tracks (Chieftains, etc) and some new stuff, I realised that another sound I love is the Low D whistle. The High D is growing on me more too, and is so convenient to carry around (especially as I'm driving around outdoors all day). So...
I've put the flute on hold, and am going for a Low D whistle because it's a challenge and I love the sound, and a High D as well, because it's a challenge and the sound is growing on me (and it's convenient).
I figure this; they'll both be a good learning curve, and good fun, but I'll get into actually playing with others quicker than I would with a flute, can use the High D for the jigs and reels (when I master some tunes), and the Low D for airs and haunting ballads. (No doubt 'haunting' will mean people telling me my whistle is possessed because of the wails coming from it, but what the hey).
All of this seems to be coming together more because my main reason for wanting to learn is to play traditional Irish music, and that means ornamentation, feeling, ornamentation, ornamentation, more feeling, and some more ornamentation. I'm feeling that flute is fairly difficult, Low whistle slightly less difficult, High whistle slightly less difficult. By difficult, of course, I don't mean that I think High whistle is a walk-over; I'm talking more in terms of learning curve, time before you can even play a tune, etc.
I'm going to go for a decent quality Low D, and a mid-range quality High D. If I love the High D then I can always get a better one later, but it seems obvious that money spent on a good Low D is more important in terms of tuning and sound quality. (Is it really true that some professionals prefer cheap 'penny whistles'..?)
Any further comments welcomed, but it does seem that I'm being gently nudged by life in the direction of whistles so I can play quicker rather than making it hard from the outset.
Edit:
The owner of a well known music store in the UK (who shall remain nameless) told me today to get an Overton Low D. He said that when he does conventions in Ireland it's the biggest seller, and that many players try other makes, but say the Overton is the only one really in tune. Any feedback on this..? (By the way, he said price doesn't come into it, as I'm not likely to be buying a new one every month. He's a well respected guy, too).
Edit too (good grief):
Any ideas which Low D's have closer finger spacing as well as a great sound, and don't require lungs like a blacksmith's bellows..?
I've made a decision, based partly upon advice here, partly on re-thinking what I want to do, and partly on finances.
I do want a challenge and a long-term musical 'project', and liked the sound and feel of a flute. I felt whistles were a bit 'toy-ish'. However, having re-listened to a lot of my favourite tracks (Chieftains, etc) and some new stuff, I realised that another sound I love is the Low D whistle. The High D is growing on me more too, and is so convenient to carry around (especially as I'm driving around outdoors all day). So...
I've put the flute on hold, and am going for a Low D whistle because it's a challenge and I love the sound, and a High D as well, because it's a challenge and the sound is growing on me (and it's convenient).
I figure this; they'll both be a good learning curve, and good fun, but I'll get into actually playing with others quicker than I would with a flute, can use the High D for the jigs and reels (when I master some tunes), and the Low D for airs and haunting ballads. (No doubt 'haunting' will mean people telling me my whistle is possessed because of the wails coming from it, but what the hey).
All of this seems to be coming together more because my main reason for wanting to learn is to play traditional Irish music, and that means ornamentation, feeling, ornamentation, ornamentation, more feeling, and some more ornamentation. I'm feeling that flute is fairly difficult, Low whistle slightly less difficult, High whistle slightly less difficult. By difficult, of course, I don't mean that I think High whistle is a walk-over; I'm talking more in terms of learning curve, time before you can even play a tune, etc.
I'm going to go for a decent quality Low D, and a mid-range quality High D. If I love the High D then I can always get a better one later, but it seems obvious that money spent on a good Low D is more important in terms of tuning and sound quality. (Is it really true that some professionals prefer cheap 'penny whistles'..?)
Any further comments welcomed, but it does seem that I'm being gently nudged by life in the direction of whistles so I can play quicker rather than making it hard from the outset.
Edit:
The owner of a well known music store in the UK (who shall remain nameless) told me today to get an Overton Low D. He said that when he does conventions in Ireland it's the biggest seller, and that many players try other makes, but say the Overton is the only one really in tune. Any feedback on this..? (By the way, he said price doesn't come into it, as I'm not likely to be buying a new one every month. He's a well respected guy, too).
Edit too (good grief):
Any ideas which Low D's have closer finger spacing as well as a great sound, and don't require lungs like a blacksmith's bellows..?
HogwashMichael31856 wrote: He said that when he does conventions in Ireland it's the biggest seller, and that many players try other makes, but say the Overton is the only one really in tune. Any feedback on this..?
Editted for clarity - Overton is by far not the only Low D that is in tune. Of all the whistles I've played and enjoyed, they've ALL been reasonably in tune to my ear. Granted, my ear isn't perfect, but for all...or even MOST of the low whistles out there to be 'out of tune' is simply not true.
Last edited by Tyghress on Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Michael31856
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Michael31856
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Oh gawd... this is getting worse...
I'm listening to Tristan and Isolde by The Chieftains, all High D whistle I think, and it's heart melting stuff.
This is making me think that a good quality High D might be the best purchase as some of you are saying. Consider Low D and/or flute later - much later, by the way things are going.
I've also just met someone tonight who knows a whistler who's willing to teach me. Am I a reluctant whistler..?
Ear plugs: that's something else I read about...
I'm listening to Tristan and Isolde by The Chieftains, all High D whistle I think, and it's heart melting stuff.
This is making me think that a good quality High D might be the best purchase as some of you are saying. Consider Low D and/or flute later - much later, by the way things are going.
I've also just met someone tonight who knows a whistler who's willing to teach me. Am I a reluctant whistler..?
Ear plugs: that's something else I read about...
I think they just say that to keep people from wanting to steal them. Probably have "cheap whistle" printed contac paper stuck over them to make 'em look rustic.Michael31856 wrote: (Is it really true that some professionals prefer cheap 'penny whistles'..?)
Make sure it's not a fake Overton.The owner of a well known music store in the UK (who shall remain nameless) told me today to get an Overton Low D. He said that when he does conventions in Ireland it's the biggest seller, and that many players try other makes, but say the Overton is the only one really in tune. Any feedback on this..?
No, you'll only be buying a new one every other month. That's what WhOA is. And he knows it.(By the way, he said price doesn't come into it, as I'm not likely to be buying a new one every month. He's a well respected guy, too).
You're over-analyzing again. If you have to ask this, it's a sign that you need to try some low whistles before you buy one.Any ideas which Low D's have closer finger spacing as well as a great sound, and don't require lungs like a blacksmith's bellows..?
The whole problem is that you can't predict what instrument you are going to like until you've tried them. Can you get yourself over to that dealer's shop and blow on some?
Just get a couple high D whistles, at least one of them being a good one, and have a go at them for a month or so. At least one of them should be a "quiet" whistle so you don't need those earplugs.
Believe me, you'll have enough to do with those little whistles! You'll learn a lot and be in a better position to decide what to do next.
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Michael31856
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Here, I'll make this a win-win situation for you . . . you buy that Black Diamond D, and if you don't LOVE THAT WHISTLE, I'll trade you for ten pounds of alligator meat!
You can't miss with something like that! Deal?
Oh, and you'll also need one of these . . . http://www.angelfire.com/mo/sassafrassg ... ySackSuper
You can't miss with something like that! Deal?
Oh, and you'll also need one of these . . . http://www.angelfire.com/mo/sassafrassg ... ySackSuper
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Michael31856
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Hiya Lambchop (do you know the sock puppet of the same name, seen on Brit TV some years ago..?)
It looks like I'm settling on a Black Diamond tuneable Hi-D for it's tone, ease of playing, and non-metallic head (no metal in my gob!) Also, a Howard Lo-D for the same reasons. So far. That's as of now - ish. Thanks for the alligator offer, but I want to play, not chew!
I get paid a week Wednesday, and that's cough-up the moola time, then honk and squeak for all I'm worth, and then some.
Thanks for the advice - so much has been helpful in working out the basics before I go for it, and any adjustments to instruments or myself will come as time passes. Just hope to god I don't get WhOA disorder...
Don't think I will, as the music is more important, don't you think? Actually playing, having fun playing with others; that's what I want to do - a lot. There are ceilidh nights to raise the roof and rot your socks here, and I want to be hooting in there somehow as well as dancing around the room beer in hand. (Just have to suck the beer up through the whistle in future I guess).
Oh, and I have a date on Thursday - first in a year and a half - but she sings and appreciates ITM, thank the heavens. Cute, and a witch too - life may get even better...
It looks like I'm settling on a Black Diamond tuneable Hi-D for it's tone, ease of playing, and non-metallic head (no metal in my gob!) Also, a Howard Lo-D for the same reasons. So far. That's as of now - ish. Thanks for the alligator offer, but I want to play, not chew!
I get paid a week Wednesday, and that's cough-up the moola time, then honk and squeak for all I'm worth, and then some.
Thanks for the advice - so much has been helpful in working out the basics before I go for it, and any adjustments to instruments or myself will come as time passes. Just hope to god I don't get WhOA disorder...
Don't think I will, as the music is more important, don't you think? Actually playing, having fun playing with others; that's what I want to do - a lot. There are ceilidh nights to raise the roof and rot your socks here, and I want to be hooting in there somehow as well as dancing around the room beer in hand. (Just have to suck the beer up through the whistle in future I guess).
Oh, and I have a date on Thursday - first in a year and a half - but she sings and appreciates ITM, thank the heavens. Cute, and a witch too - life may get even better...