Cutting elder drone reeds,

[stew]

Hello guy's, I have been out cutting elder for drone's reeds this last few days, I managed to cut around 2000-3000 elder reeds between 2"& 5"inch lengths, and a thickness of between 6&8mm,seems to plenty this year, and they were all free, I made sure I've got a good surply for next autumn,anyone else been out cutting elder, there's stacks of it in the hedge rows, two year wood is what or after for cutting, there's still a little time left while this cold snap is here in the UK, you must cut while the elder bush it still dormant,sure is fecking cold here yorkshire thow.

[stew]

Sorry about the two line mistake's guys,I'm correct them,

1, two year old wood is what you are after for cutting,

2,you must cut while the elder bush is still dormant,

hope this helps,but get out while there's still time for cutting
some elder for your drone's,it make's lovely drone reeds,

And yes' its still "brass Monkey" weather here in Yorkshire.

[Mike Hulme]

I've got one growing in the garden. No reeds this year though; the thing was hanging out into the road and the Council came and cut it back to a stump.

Have you tried drying out yours in a microwave?

Mike

[stew]

"Microwave"!?, I just stack the reeds in baskets,then put them in the garage on a shelf, to slowly dry them out over the summer months were they should be ready for using next autumn,all being well,
.

Must say thou,You've got me with the mricrowave, I've never tried cooking them, "any good with Gravy" .

[gregorygraham]

Stew,

Sounds great. Abundant elder. Would you swap some elder for some birch bark or pine cones? We've got loads of the latter but little to none of the former here in Ontario I have no idea what piping application you could put birch bark to, but supply must lead to application, no?

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

2000-3000? Chrikey, how long did that take?
Did you cut them to length, scrape the bark off, remove the pith? The bark at least I'd do, I've seen reeds that were green on the inside 6 months later.
I scrape the bark off real quick, then put the reed in an electric drill, both to remove the rest of the bark, put a cone on the end for the reed seat, and to remove the worst of the pith - the high speed burnishes the inside too I think, maybe better for stability, and to retain some of those high frequencies (Sean An Piob has written here about rough bores in pipes mellowing things out - works with staples too he says).
Elder's a bit of work - it's the way to go if you're into baking bread, brewing hooch, nailing up fences, etc.

[marcpipes]

Is it the same elder as the type of berries used for wine? The flowers also get used for flavoring piesporter. I wonder if it'll grow in the Great Lakes region.

[tommykleen]

Is it the same elder as the type of berries used for wine? The flowers also get used for flavoring piesporter. I wonder if it'll grow in the Great Lakes region.

Different critter. The two species in your neck of the woods are Sambucus pubens (the red berried, enidible kind) and S. canadensis (blackish berried:see Euel Gibbons for tons of uses for the stuff).

T

[billh]

Hi Tommy, All

I think any elder will work if the size is right and the tree was slow growing. I've heard mountain/altitude/cold stuff is best for that reason; fast growing stuff can have walls that are too thin.

Ken McLeod reckons you get better results by cutting the tongues when fresh cut, then letting them sit. If I recall correctly, he and Wilbert cut the tongues on the convex side of the curve, if the piece is a bit curved. I think it's worth a try, especially if you've cut a big bunch of elder shoots, just to see if Ken's method works for you.

Personally, I've had only limited experience with making them, but I figure they're worth the experiment, especially for narrow bore sets.

Bill

[daveboling]

Is it the same elder as the type of berries used for wine? The flowers also get used for flavoring piesporter. I wonder if it'll grow in the Great Lakes region.

Different critter. The two species in your neck of the woods are Sambucus pubens (the red berried, enidible kind) and S. canadensis (blackish berried:see Euel Gibbons for tons of uses for the stuff).

T

There are acres of european elder (Sambucus nigra) in the US courtesy of German immigrants who brought the plant with them when they immigrated to the US in the mid to late 1800's. I have found it in Kansas, and Alabama. I don't know if you can differentiate the different species without seeing the berrys, so I map them when the fruit is present.

dave boling

[John S]

It's nice to see people making there own reeds from local materials.
Elder is very common here in the UK and now is about the last opportunity you’ll get to harvest any; the buds are already swelling here in sunny Manchester.
I've made some GHB reeds from Elder as well as instruments.
I remove the bark strait away as sometimes when it dries it's really hard to get it off. I dry it before I de-pith it, as I've found that without the pith it sometimes warps to oval.
I de-pith using threaded rod as near to the internal diameter of the reed as possible, with a bit of practice you can remove it in one piece and clean up using the rod as a file.
As regards the drying without the bark it will only take a week or so in indoor conditions for UP dimension reeds.
It certainly is easier to cut the tong when the reed is wet; for my GHB reeds that run wet anyway I bring the Elder to the boil in a kettle, cool it with cold water and then cut the tong. For UP's if you try this you will have to bind the tong and body (with something that has some elasticity) to ensure they shrink together and seal.

PP

[stew]

To get good reeds you need to dry the elder cutting out slowly,
using an electric drill will only damage the elder inner wall skin,
the elder bark skin is quite easily remove after 6-7 months
after drying,
best way to remove the pith is with a clockmakers hand pin vice using a small drill bit first, then a larger one that just fits the elder cutting bore nicely, to big a drill will damage the inner wall skin of the reed, clean the pith out right through from each end of the elder reed, I use a artist's knife for the cutting work on drone reeds,"but be careful" artist's knife blade's are thin and very sharp, on the elder drone reeds I go for reeds with a bore
size of,



Bass reed, bore size 3.8mm-4.3mm, length, 3.5-4.2 inches
Baratone reed,bore size 3.4mm-3.7mm, length, 2.2-3.0 inches
tener reed,bore size2.5mm 3.2mm length, 1.5-2.0 inches.

for the tenor drone, I some times use a piece of honeysuckle,
it just sings lovely over the bass and baratone drone's.

all the best with the drone reeds,Stew.

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

clockmakers hand pin vice

Had to look that one up:



Which one's your weapon of choice, Stew?
What's wrong with "damag[ing] the elder inner wall skin" ? I was talking about burnishing it with the electric drill's high speed, I figured that was a good thing - not knowing fek-all about what really works best of course! After 20 years that is. Less gunk adhering to the bore walls, same as with double reeds. I like the electric drill's speed, too. I remember reading some notes from Dan O'Dowd about guills, I think he said to boil them in butter or the like.
The elder I'm using is Pacific Red, perhaps it doesn't dry out as readily as other types?
Have you fellows tried cutting the tongue with a bit of thread, ala Eammon Ceant? I like that much more than slicing with knives etc. At any rate I've gotten good reeds using these methods. Early on I made some very rude looking/made reeds that worked too of course...
I've also made reeds from Norway Maple (tenor drone only) and Bigleaf maple (bass drone mostly).

[stew]

Any pin vice that will grip drill bits up to 4.2mm will do,its only
to make life easier, than holding the drill bits in your fingers while removing the pith, I use the better quality pin vices with collets, by the way,

what happens to the elder bore if the reed is slightly bent? and your pushing the drill bit in and out at high speed, the reed bore will be out of proportion.

the reed bore needs to be left as smoth as possible,
you can remove all the pith, by hand, with small brill bits,

please tell me, how you burnish your double reeds with a electric drill,?
never tried cutting the tongue with thread either,
I find a sharp blade dos' than fine,

also Kevin?

when you use cane for drone reeds, the cane bore fibres run naturally straight,? do you burnish the cane bore as well,
with a drill,?

all the best,
Stew.

[Joseph E. Smith]

Any pin vice that will grip drill bits up to 4.2mm will do,its only
to make life easier, than holding the drill bits in your fingers while removing the pith, I use the better quality pin vices with collets, by the way,

What about using vice-grips or channel locks?