Source for Basil (sheep)

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 1:36 am

Does anyone know of a good source for basil (not the spice), the dry-cured sheep skin that was traditionally used for UP bags before chrome or elk-tanned cowhide?

Dionys

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 4:31 am

Dionys,
I tried a Yahoo search and found one occurance of basil tanned leather for pipes.
http://www.hewit.com/news98.htm
It's primary use seems to be in bookbinding.
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/dt/dt0247.html
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/dt/dt2891.html
http://www.kingsmerecrafts.btinternet.co.uk/page18.html
one website referred to it as: Soft-tanned sheepskin; low quality leather.
some basic hide tanning instructions:
http://www.homestead.org/tanning.htm

brendan ring · Post by **brendan ring** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:27 am

I have been told that the best leather for UP bags is elk hide. I can't get it here but I would certainly look for it if I was in the states.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:14 am

Brendan,
Try Michael Mac Harg, 'The Wee Piper' for Elk Uilleann bags. http://www.vermontel.com/~theweepiper/

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:23 pm

I understand that sheepskin is very porus and will require regular seasoning for it to be playable. It is good at absorbing moisture, though and some GHB players prefer it over the common goretex GHB bag.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:14 pm

Not true. My L&M bag is untreated. UP leather bags do not normally need to be treated, as they are not typically exposed to moisture as GHB bags are. This seems to freak GHB players out totally, and they will squawk, but think about it, there is no one breathing or salivating into a blowpipe, just the bellows supplying the bag.

djm

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:56 pm

IIRC, I don't think that L&M uses sheep skin for their bags but they use the domesticated bovine skin (cow) tanned with the tanning method that makes it air proof (chrome-elk-whatever).

Q. What's a baseball covered with?
A. Hide.
Q. Huh?
A. Hide, hide, you know, the cow's outside!
Q. Why should I hide? I'm not afraid of cows!

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:02 pm

You can find out more about Basil here: http://www.basilrathbone.net/

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:04 pm

Ah yes,

I'm an old time radio fan reliving my youth and hearing tales I have forgotten. I remember him well.

I should have done a Google search before I posted about L&M bags. It seems they offer both.

elbogo · Post by **elbogo** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:32 am

So... who is Dionys... really?

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:32 am

djm wrote:Not true. UP leather bags do not normally need to be treated, as they are not typically exposed to moisture as GHB bags are. This seems to freak GHB players out totally, and they will squawk, but think about it, there is no one breathing or salivating into a blowpipe, just the bellows supplying the bag.

djm

djm your not true is not true.leather bags after a period o time will nead to be seasoned,even yours!!leather being fibrous will stretch and give and ye will be surprised how much easier it will be after seasoning.You will only have to do it every 4 or 5years but do it ye certainly will .
Slan go foill
Liam

liestman · Post by **liestman** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:14 am

The bag I made myself in 1989 from elk-tanned cowhide (using MacHarg's rivet method) is still perfectly airtight after regular playing for 14 years and has never seen any sealing goop. The leather may stretch over the years but that does not, in itself, open the pores any.

John Liestman

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:18 am

Uilliam, I sure hope not. I know people with bags and bellows 10-15 years that have never had to treat them. Joe Kennedy tells me he does not treat any of his own stuff, nor any of his customers.

This may be very much a matter of one's local environment. I don't claim to be any kind of expert. Just my own experience and those I have talked to here.

djm

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:45 am

I have seen a number of MacHarg bags last over 15 years with no need for treatment. Leather from across the pond seems usually to be of poorer quality (ducking slings and arrows). Basil is porous and requires the melted beeswax and lard treatment to seal it. As UPs do not require a treatment to wick out moisture from mouth blowing, use of GHB treatments are not advised, and in fact can be detrimental.

Ted

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:13 pm

liestman wrote:The bag I made myself in 1989 from elk-tanned cowhide (using MacHarg's rivet method) is still perfectly airtight after regular playing for 14 years and has never seen any sealing goop. The leather may stretch over the years but that does not, in itself, open the pores any.

John Liestman

Leakage from an L&M ELK-tanned bag with a good seam or any other well-made ELK-tanned bag like MacHarg's is more likely from tying the seam over a stock and not quite getting a perfect mate with the lumpy seam. Likewise, sewn seams are by nature sources of possible leaks.

You can do a simple test though: cork off the stocks tightly with rubber stoppers. And I mean tightly. Inflate through the blowpipe as hard as you can by mouth. (You may need a final cork in the blowpipe end) Come back in an hour or so and see if it's still rock-hard.

If not, you're leaking.

Royce