Flute restoration DIY info

[fyffer]

Can anyone point in the proper direction for Do-It-Yourself information on flute resoration? After playing my new old Kohlert for the last few days, I'm able to get a pretty decent sound out of it so far, and I think all it needs is some cleaning, and perhaps a new spring or pad or two.

The kind of stuff I'm interested in is
- What kind of tools should I use?
- Any pointers on taking it apart?
- Where can I find supplies? Online?- What should I *really* use to clean this baby?
- How do I fill/stop a cosmetic crack (in a fully lined headjoint)?- Where can I find info on *my* flute based on serial number?
Any wisdom/insight at all is much appreciated!

TIA

[Sliabh Luachra]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but Hammy's book has a lot of info about repair and care. The Irish Flute Handbook, I think is what it's called.

Mark[/i]

[NicoMoreno]

Hmm, some tips:

Tools: Toothpicks, silcone caulking, and (recently) steel wool (000 grade)
Other: Glue. I am lazy, so I've used wood glue. Not a good choice though. You should find some sort of super glue. I've been told that taking some sawdust of whatever wood your flute is and mixing it with the super glue and using that on the crack leaves a finish pretty much indistinguishable from the rest of the flute. I think there are a couple such cracks on both my flutes.
Springs: I really don't know. Ask a professional. Seriously. This is the part that if you screw up, your flute will take a lot of work to fix.
Pads: Silicone Caulking. Not great, but it works (generally). Alan, on chat last night, suggested hamburger tray styrofoam. I know I'm not happy with how my C and C# low keys turned out. (Ie they don't sound). I may try the styrofoam. Although, apparently there are stores where you can still pick up 8-key flute pad sets.
Taking the keys off: I use a toothpick to push the pin out. It's important to note that one end of the pins is flaired, so push the other end to get the pin out.
Cleaning: Steel wool. I tried brasso on the keys and they really didn't come clean. I haven't gone nuts with the steel wool yet, so my flutes still look "old", but I will get there eventually.

[Pelham]

You'll also find some helpful information on Terry McGee's website http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/

Best of luck,

Pelham

[Cathy Wilde]

I found Clive Catterall's site very helpful for advice.

http://www.flutes.fsbusiness.co.uk/maintenance.html

Also, if you pull the key pins with pliers, make sure they're SMOOTH-jawed pliers! (voice of painful experience here )

Sometimes just treating the key pads with a good leather restorer like Leather Therapy helps a lot (take the keys off first).

I haven't tried Jayhawk's silicone aquarium sealant pad replacement method (there's a thread somewhere on this board), but I like the idea a lot and plan to soon.

When supergluing cracks, get the runniest superglue you can find. Use a toothpick or pin to apply as neatly as you can. When it's dry, use 000 steel wool and a lot of patience to smooth it down. Successive applications should fill the crack very nicely. I actually can't find a couple of cracks I've repaired on one of my old ones unless I look with a magnifying glass for the slight change of finish.

FINALLY, a good magnifier (I have one of those 'round the neck ones that seamstresses and knitters use; about $8 at Wal-Mart) is invaluable if you're over 30.

good luck!

[fyffer]

Folks are talking about 'pins' here, and my flute apparently has screws - very tiny, like eyeglass screws, which appear to go all the way through both posts. I will try to take some good close-up photos, and perhaps I'll keep a web journal of my progress. Also, the springs are unlike anything I'm used to (having only really seen saxophone pin-type springs). They are flat, slightly curved, about 1 mm wide. They curve away from the key.

Here's a crude MSPaint drawing:



What is interesting here to me (again, a complete newbie to flute anatomy) is that the "foot" of the spring seems to go into a little hole in the flute body, as seen above at the right end of the spring (red in image above). Notice how it quite literally (not just a bad drawing) actually penetrates the body of the flute. At that location, there is actually a small metal pocket, which resembles the head of a slotted screw, into which the spring is anchored.

I suspect some of the slow action I'm experiencing with some keys is a result of some gunk built up in these "anchor holes" (for lack of a better term), particularly in the G# key, which is the shortest spring on the flute, and curves significantly around the body of the flute.

Anyway, I'll take the advice of finding jeweler's tools, since I happen to work in a jewelry manufacturing section of the city, and see if I can't make some headway. Hopefully I won't destroy this little guy. I'll be *very* careful ....

[EDIT] -- I've finally managed to separate the headjoint from the barrel! Following the genius instructions on Terry's website, "firm pulling combined with a twisting action", I was able to divorce the two pieces! There is a ton of goop built up on the tenon, which I will promptly remove, with fine sandpaper or steel wool.
This is way too much fun!

[Alan]

Yes, many post mounted keys have pins that screw in. You have to be careful about stuck threaded pins too or you might chew up that little slot. Applying some penetrating oil and waiting a while is a good idea if the screw pin doesn't want to budge at first.

I have been using the somewhat springy type of styrofoam from the trays used at supermarkets to package meats and such, for key pads. I did it at first as an expedient but found that a couple of pads I put on an old C soprano sax have lasted well and so have padded both 6 and 8 key flutes using foam with good results. It's easy to make an impression of the pad cup on the foam then cut out the pad with small scissors. I use a drop of super glue to keep the pad in the cup and then, after putting the key back on the instrument, press the cup against the hole to make an impression of it on the foam. I don't make any claims for this method other than it is quick and easy and has worked well for me for so far.

I have used the silicone method also but it is rather slow and messy though works fairly well.

[Cathy Wilde]

Congratulations! It is fun, isn't it?

Looks like you have the basic leaf spring on a post-mounted key (as opposed to a leaf spring on a block-mounted key).

Do be cautious with those leaf springs. They're very thin and can snap or twist off their spot-solder or screwpoints quite easily (when you take a key off and look under there you'll see what I mean).

If you decide to try to bend a spring out a bit with your pliers, be sure to wrap the key in cloth so you don't scratch it, and be careful not to bend the key -- it's silver and soffffffft (All in all, it might be safer to take your keys to a jeweler).

Recently I've been trying a small cardboard shim between the key and the spring to increase tension between the spring and the body (I'm calling it "orthopedic spring-bending"), and that seems to help a bit, but not so much as I'd like...

Clive Caterall's site (link above) covers this topic pretty nicely.

Good luck, and let's start a flute-fixit school. It's a blast!

[Jon C.]

Hi,
You can get supplies: cork, pads tools, at Ferrees tools.
www.ferreestools.com

[Byron]

Have you this link? http://www.flutemakers.org/flute-tech/
It's a searchable archive of the Old flute-tech list. Some good stuff there.

Byron

[fyffer]

Here are the pics I promised.

She's in really great shape already! Last night, I removed the C-nat and G# keys, mainly to access only the G#, which was sticking open. It was a great exercise. I found a little screwdriver in my tool box and carefully unscrewed the pins; gently removed them with needle-nose pliers and a rag; gently polished the pins and the keys; put a little 3-in-1 oil on the pins and in the pin chamber in the key; removed the gunk from the spring channels on the flute body; cleaned out the Cnat and G# holes with a Q-tip; increased the G# spring tension by slightly bending the spring; reattached both keys.

This took me all of about 30 minutes, and suddenly the keys' responses are fantastic! I'm going to do the same to all the keys, but I still need a bit of advice on cleaning. What should I use on the wood? I want to try some kind of solvent, since much of the buildup is very greasy, like old oil, but I don't want to ruin the wood. Also, what is the best test for the pads? I think mine are in very good shape, but is it sufficient just to feel them? Any suggestions for leak testing? I'd guess a light is the way to go, but obviously, I need something really skinny.

I finally dismantled the tuning slide from the headjoint. What is the best way to clean that really thin area in the headjoint where the slide fits between the wood and the metal lining?

Notice my hairline crack in the headjoint. Purely cosmetic, I assure you, since it's fully lined, but I've seen multiple suggestions for filling it. One I saw was to use epoxy tinged with dust from a similar dark wood. Or is multiple superglue applications really the best approach?

AFA cleaning the keys, someone suggested (another thread?) having a jeweler professionally clean them. Would that mean taking them all off, and bringing them to a jeweler? What about the pads? Will the metal cleaning process ruin them?

You can see in the pictures the difference in the wood tone around the keys. Once the keys are removed, what is a reliable way to even out the coloring on the whole flute?
Thanks in advance!

[Cathy Wilde]

QUALIFIER: THIS IS FROM MY EXPERIENCE & READING & STUDY ONLY. ANYONE WHO KNOWS OTHERWISE, PLEASE JUMP IN!

I'd still consider light application of acetone with a Q-Tip for cleaning; then wipe down with a soft cloth. I don't think I'd let it sit on the wood, so wipe quickly. Anyway, that worked really well for my boxwood and cocus cleanup jobs, and hasn't seemed to hurt blackwood where I've cleaned excess superglue from the edges of a crack repair.

I am completely and totally sold on the "successive applications of runny superglue" method for fixing cracks. It builds up in layers like laminae; then you rub off any excess from the surface of the flute with 000 steel wool (and a little acetone if you need it).

For wider cracks you can mix ebony dust in with your superglue, no problem, although you may want to save the dust mix for the top few layers of the repair.

Your pads actually look in pretty good shape from the photo; they also appear to be relatively modern skin pads (i.e., not leather). If that's the case, you want to be REALLY careful cleaning them -- try putting an ungummed cigarette paper or piece of thin white paper (I prefer cigarette paper; it's thinner and doesn't drag the surface of the pad) under the key, holding the key down, and pulling the paper out from under it. If you see a lot of gunk, yep, your pads are dirty, but repeating this will help clean them. If you don't see a lot of gunk, they're in pretty good shape. As far as checking for leaks goes, I just rubber-band each key and play until I find the offender.

Taking the flute into a dark room or closet and shining a flashlight thru each section sometimes shows up leaky areas as well.

From the looks of it, the cork under your Eb key touch might be up for replacing, and often that key is a prime leak suspect. Any woodwind repairer can do that for you; any woodwind repairer can also fix your pads -- which might be the easiest way to go!

AFA the wood color change, I don't know how much luck you'll have there -- that's probably a questions for a woodwind repairer, maybe even in your town? Although where I come from marks of use are badges of honor -- esp. in the classical tradition, where a little tarnish means you actually play the thing!

But a little raw linseed oil seems to restore things nicely. Make sure you put Saran Wrap or wax paper under the keys before you oil the bore, especially if those are skin pads. They're sensitive little devils, and you don't want to mess them up!

I've had good luck with my local woodwind repairer on certain things, so if you get stuck that's never a bad place to go first. After all, they work on oboes .... !

[Cathy Wilde]

Oh, and finally, the most important thing .... if you come up against something that doesn't work, put the flute in its case and walk away for a day and have a rethink. Much better than getting frustrated or going whole-hog -- and sometimes it's good to only change one thing at a time so you can figure out what was really broken in the first place

But again, that's only my experience.

[Jayhawk]

Cathy, as usual, is right on target.

I've used thin layers of runny superglue myself, and it works well. On my Sweetheart, Ralph and Co. used some form of expoxy on the tennons and that's worked perfectly and has been holding since before I owned the flute. Either would work, and I'm willing to bet Ralph would love a call or email discussing repair issues - he's a great guy.

I'm not sure why you'd need to find a jeweler to clean your keys. Use 000 steel wool or brasso (I'm pretty sure that's nickel/german silver). You have to be more careful with brasso to keep it off your pads, but it will work. Also, if it's german silver like I think (pretty sure, the tarnish colors don't look right for sterling), it's not bendable so don't worry about hurting it.

Eric

[Cathy Wilde]

<snip>Use 000 steel wool or brasso (I'm pretty sure that's nickel/german silver). You have to be more careful with brasso to keep it off your pads, but it will work. Also, if it's german silver like I think (pretty sure, the tarnish colors don't look right for sterling), it's not bendable so don't worry about hurting it.

Eric

Oooh, good to know, Eric! I was feeling incredibly guilty about taking a few steel-wool swipes at the keys and rings of the little ebay Murray. They're very tarnished (and VERY bendable!), and 000 steel wool seems to be the only thing that works. However, they're very pewter-tarnishy looking, so I haven't gone too far ....

Anyway, thanks for the tip!!!

P.S. Fyffer, I didn't even NOTICE tarnish on your keys! (i.e., you want tarnish, let me show you these black things on my flute!)