Degrees of murder

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:56 am

Apparently the UK government is considering altering the law so that murder will be divided along the American lines of varying degrees of murder. Could someone let me know what the US degrees are and how they vary fron each other?

missy · Post by **missy** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:38 am

here's Ohio's code 2903:

§ 2903.01. Aggravated murder.
(A)No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy. (B)No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy while committing or attempting to commit, or while fleeing immediately after committing or attempting to commit, kidnapping, rape, aggravated arson, arson, aggravated robbery, robbery, aggravated burglary, burglary, terrorism, or escape.
(C)No person shall purposely cause the death of another who is under thirteen years of age at the time of the commission of the offense.
(D)No person who is under detention as a result of having been found guilty of or having pleaded guilty to a felony or who breaks that detention shall purposely cause the death of another.
(E)No person shall purposely cause the death of a law enforcement officer whom the offender knows or has reasonable cause to know is a law enforcement officer when either of the following applies:
(1)The victim, at the time of the commission of the offense, is engaged in the victim's duties.
(2)It is the offender's specific purpose to kill a law enforcement officer.
(F)Whoever violates this section is guilty of aggravated murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.
(G)As used in this section:
(1)"Detention" has the same meaning as in section 2921.01 of the Revised Code.
(2)"Law enforcement officer" has the same meaning as in section 2911.01 of the Revised Code.

§ 2903.02. Murder.
(A)No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.
(B)No person shall cause the death of another as a proximate result of the offender's committing or attempting to commit an offense of violence that is a felony of the first or second degree and that is not a violation of section 2903.03 or 2903.04 of the Revised Code.
(C)Division (B) of this section does not apply to an offense that becomes a felony of the first or second degree only if the offender previously has been convicted of that offense or another specified offense.
(D)Whoever violates this section is guilty of murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.

§ 2903.03. Voluntary manslaughter.
(A)No person, while under the influence of sudden passion or in a sudden fit of rage, either of which is brought on by serious provocation occasioned by the victim that is reasonably sufficient to incite the person into using deadly force, shall knowingly cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.
(B)Whoever violates this section is guilty of voluntary manslaughter, a felony of the first degree.

§ 2903.04. Involuntary manslaughter.
(A)No person shall cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy as a proximate result of the offender's committing or attempting to commit a felony.
(B)No person shall cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy as a proximate result of the offender's committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor of any degree, a regulatory offense, or a minor misdemeanor other than a violation of any section contained in Title XLV of the Revised Code that is a minor misdemeanor and other than a violation of an ordinance of a municipal corporation that, regardless of the penalty set by ordinance for the violation, is substantially equivalent to any section contained in Title XLV of the Revised Code that is a minor misdemeanor.
(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Violation of division (A) of this section is a felony of the first degree. Violation of division (B) of this section is a felony of the third degree.
(C)If an offender is convicted of or pleads guilty to a violation of division (A) or (B) of this section and if the felony, misdemeanor, or regulatory offense that the offender committed or attempted to commit, that proximately resulted in the death of the other person or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy, and that is the basis of the offender's violation of division (A) or (B) of this section was a violation of division (A) or (B) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code or of a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance or included, as an element of that felony, misdemeanor, or regulatory offense, the offender's operation or participation in the operation of a snowmobile, locomotive, watercraft, or aircraft while the offender was under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or alcohol and a drug of abuse, both of the following apply:
1)The court shall impose a class one suspension of the offender's driver's or commercial driver's license or permit or nonresident operating privilege as specified in division (A)(1) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.
2)The court shall impose a mandatory prison term for the violation of division (A) or (B) of this section from the range of prison terms authorized for the level of the offense under section 2929.14 of the Revised Code.

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:48 am

Criminal homicide.
A person is guilty of criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowlingly, recklessly or negligently causes the death of another human being.

Classification.-Criminal homicide shall be classified as murder, voluntary manslaughter, or involuntary manslaughter.

Murder.
(a) Murder of the first degree.-A criminal homicide constitutes murder of the first degree when it is committed by an intentional killing.

(b) Murder of the second degree.-A criminal homicide constitutes murder of the second degree when it is committed while defendant was engaged as a principal or an accomplice int he perpetration of a felony.

(c) Murder of the third degree.-All other kinds of murder shall be murder of the third degree. Murder of the third degree is a felony of the first degree.

In the UK we've always had similar 'divisions' or degrees of homicide ranging from murder to manslaughter. Dunno why HMG is proposing to faff around with the current laws, which have been extant for as long as Parliament. But of course they've just been re-elected, and must be seen to be 'doing something' to justify the expense of the elections I suppose.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:55 am

I got this information from
findlaw.com
and am not a lawyer, so read them yourself to form your own conclusions.

The way I read it:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ ... egree.html
1st degree murder: Willful premeditated killing.

2nd degree murder:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ ... egree.html
Intentional killing that is not premeditated, but not committed in the "heat of passion". They give the example of:

Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. At a stoplight the next day, Dan sees Victor riding in the passenger seat of a nearby car. Dan pulls out a gun and fires three shots into the car, missing Victor but killing the driver of the car.

Voluntary Manslaughter:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ ... ntary.html

intentional killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion."

Involuntary Manslaughter
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ ... ntary.html
Unintentional killing that results from recklessness (such as speeding, for instance).

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:13 am

GaryKelly wrote:Dunno why HMG is proposing to faff around with the current laws

Apparently they want to do away with the mandatory life sentence for murder on the grounds that different types of murder should lead to different types of sentence.
Personally I would have thought this is already taken care of by the 'tariff' system whereby the judge sets the minimum amount of time to be served in prison before parole may be applied for.

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:14 am

Degrees of murder! Is there degrees of deadness?

Hummmm

MarkB

Craig Stuntz · Post by **Craig Stuntz** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:16 am

Wanderer wrote:http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ ... egree.html
1st degree murder: Willful premeditated killing.

As the site notes, this varies by state. In New York, IIRC, first degree murder is killing a police officer. In many if not most other states it's premeditated murder, but can also include other things, such as murder in the context of rape.

While there is also a <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/ ... l">federal law against murder</a>, and it does have "degrees," most murder prosecutions are at the state level.

(<b>Disclaimer:</b> I'm not a lawyer so don't take my word on it.)

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:19 pm

I've never understood the term "brutally murdered." It seems to me, by definition, all murders are brutal.

MarkB wrote:Degrees of murder! Is there degrees of deadness?

Hummmm

MarkB

Yes. Someone's body can be fine while he or she is braindead.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:44 pm

Craig Stuntz wrote: As the site notes, this varies by state. In New York, IIRC, first degree murder is killing a police officer. In many if not most other states it's premeditated murder, but can also include other things, such as murder in the context of rape.

While there is also a <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/ ... l">federal law against murder</a>, and it does have "degrees," most murder prosecutions are at the state level.

(<b>Disclaimer:</b> I'm not a lawyer so don't take my word on it.)

All true as far as I can tell..I was just giving him the short version

Jeff Stallard · Post by **Jeff Stallard** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:46 am

Cranberry wrote:I've never understood the term "brutally murdered." It seems to me, by definition, all murders are brutal.

Where is this definition of which you speak?

Modern day executions aren't brutal; they're designed to be as painless to the vicim as possible. Old-school Medievel executions, like pulling their intestines out, or death by fire, are brutal because they're designed to prolong death while causing pain.

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:16 am

Just as a footnote, don't be misled by the word "degree". It has almost nothing to do with the victim and a lot to do with person who commits the act. Many systems also have degrees of burglary, assault etc. I think it's a good thing when a legal system tries to recognize different levels of responsibilty. To me there is a difference between driving too fast and causing an accident (vehicular homicide in MA) and killing someone as in the Sopranos (first degree murder). There a several steps in between which the lawyers can explain.

Intent seems to matter. Some would argue that it is not relevant.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:16 pm

Jeff Stallard wrote:
Cranberry wrote:I've never understood the term "brutally murdered." It seems to me, by definition, all murders are brutal.
Where is this definition of which you speak?

Modern day executions aren't brutal; they're designed to be as painless to the vicim as possible. Old-school Medievel executions, like pulling their intestines out, or death by fire, are brutal because they're designed to prolong death while causing pain.

It's very interesting that you assumed execution by the state to be murder. I believe that as well, but not everybody (especially in the US) does.

Jeff Stallard · Post by **Jeff Stallard** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 pm

Cranberry wrote:It's very interesting that you assumed execution by the state to be murder. I believe that as well, but not everybody (especially in the US) does.

Actually, I don't think executions are murder. Murder is a crime, and executions are not criminal. I was just thinking of the brutal aspect, not the criminal aspect. So maybe you're right that all MURDER (criminally ending someone's life) is brutal. But adding the "brutal" adjective just means it's MORE brutal than the norm.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:12 pm

Jeff Stallard wrote:
Cranberry wrote:It's very interesting that you assumed execution by the state to be murder. I believe that as well, but not everybody (especially in the US) does.
Actually, I don't think executions are murder.

Then why use that example? I don't understand what you're saying.

Jeff Stallard wrote:Murder is a crime, and executions are not criminal. I was just thinking of the brutal aspect, not the criminal aspect. So maybe you're right that all MURDER (criminally ending someone's life) is brutal. But adding the "brutal" adjective just means it's MORE brutal than the norm.

How do you determine what is "brutal" murder and what is "regular" murder? No matter how long they last, or how they're done, do all murders not affect the person the same way (i.e., kill them)?