Humble Pie about Piper's Grip

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:23 am

I complained last week about a cramped left index;
some people (Bang, for instance) kindly PMed me
about trying piper's grip--something I have long
viewed with disdain. However I was at the St. Louis Tional
session at McGurks (thank for the photos Beo) and there was a fellow
playing magnificently with it.

So I've switched, both hands. I have much better control of
the flute, I find. My right hand is now entirely
free, no need for an anchor, the whole thing
is very powerful and fluid.

Also I can half hole c natural by raising my
extended left index, which is an extraordinary
advantage. Whatever dexterity I may or may
not have lost seems well worth the benefits.

How wonderful (and humiliating) it is to be about
good flute-players! In five minutes at the Tional
(I only made it to the Session at McGurks)
I transformed my technique.

Oh, well, back to re-inventing the wheel!

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:56 am

Just to add, the one key I can no longer reach on
mykeyed flute is the Bflat key, cause my thumb
is elsewhere, definitely.

I see that Seth Gallagher makes a right hand
touch Bflat key, so if piper's grip types want
a keyed flute, you might keep this in mind,
or negotiate with other makers.

norseman · Post by **norseman** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:03 am

Good to hear Jim. I've started looking at this again myself since I recently got a low D whistle.

Other than some posts here, does anyone know of any good links for using piper's grip with flute?

Bob

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:12 am

Paul McGrattan plays pipers' grip and Hamilton made a flute with keys arranged for that grip. Then there's Garry Shannon who plays lefty (though he's a righty) and has a piperish grip. Brendan McMahon custom made Garry's flute.

I started with pipers' grip but opted to start the other grip once I saw a drawing of a fluteplayer in the liner notes of a Waterboys CD. It was like a light switched on. I've had no hand fatigue since then whereas I did with pipers' grip.

Cheers,
Aaron

seisflutes · Post by **seisflutes** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:17 am

I've started alternating between normal and piper's holds lately, as I have been having some pain in my left wrist after a couple hours of normal hold. Piper's seems to help with that, but I have trouble keeping the flute steady, and also B rolls are harder."Piper's" hold is not actually the same hold I use on my pipes, BTW.

MurphyStout · Post by **MurphyStout** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:43 am

Eldarion is always right.

bang · Post by **bang** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:26 pm

jim stone wrote:I complained last week about a cramped left index;
some people (Bang, for instance) kindly PMed me
about trying piper's grip--something I have long
viewed with disdain.

hmmm. actually, i PMed a couple of suggestions for making standard grip more relaxed. i entirely respect anyone's choice of grip. for myself piper's is credible and much more natural.

Also I can half hole c natural by raising my
extended left index, ...

fwiw, it is also possible to half hole in piper's grip by slightly shifting a finger to one side or the other of the hole. if the finger is held gently against the hole to begin with, it will shift and rotate up slightly to expose a tiny bit of the hole with very little effort. i find this method offers better control in achieving the "less-than-half-hole" sized opening which usually produces better tone. it also seems quicker to me than extending and flexing a finger joint.

enjoy! /dan

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:39 pm

seisflutes wrote:I've started alternating between normal and piper's holds lately, as I have been having some pain in my left wrist after a couple hours of normal hold. Piper's seems to help with that, but I have trouble keeping the flute steady, and also B rolls are harder."Piper's" hold is not actually the same hold I use on my pipes, BTW.

What I'm finding is that when my left thumb is on the outside'bottom
of the flute and my right thumb is on the inside bottom,
and my mouth is in place, I've pretty well got the flute.
Sometimes I steady the flute with my third ring finger
on the right hand.

O well, I'm in the grip of a new theory.
Or perhaps the theory of a new grip....

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:50 pm

Again, Jim, if you want to play Bb using the so-called "piper's grip" on a trad flute, the lower octave fingers thusly:

XOX XXX

And the second octave:

XOX OXO

First octave crossfingered Bb may be a bit cloudy, but it serves well enough. Second octave crossfingered Bb is surprisingly good.

And I forgive you your past disdain.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:56 pm

Thanks

Jennie · Post by **Jennie** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:52 pm

I'm following this one closely. In all five days of my flute-playing experience, the relative immobility of my left index finger (compared to whistle playing) is so far the most difficult thing. I'm assuming that it will start to feel normal after many more hours of holding a flute.

If it doesn't, I'll think about switching my grip.

But no problems so far with my right ring finger, which had bothered me with low whistles. Yippee!

Jennie
(with my new Burns keyless, happy and challenged)

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:26 pm

Very pleased to hear this. I figured you would be
all right. The left index should feel better
with time. My problem appeared after
a couple of years of playing and may well
have to do with advancing decrepitude. There
is a demon dedicated to thwarting
my efforts--I stay one jump ahead
of him. So far!

rebelpiper · Post by **rebelpiper** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:29 pm

norseman wrote:Good to hear Jim. I've started looking at this again myself since I recently got a low D whistle.

Bob

i just recieved a flute and i am also trying the pipers grip

norseman · Post by **norseman** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:03 pm

rebelpiper wrote:
norseman wrote:Good to hear Jim. I've started looking at this again myself since I recently got a low D whistle.

Bob
i just recieved a flute and i am also trying the pipers grip

I bet it's a nice flute too! Just remember it only has 6 finger holes.

LisaD · Post by **LisaD** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:10 pm

Maybe you all can help me. I tried the piper's grip, but I'm not sure how to get all the holes covered. On a low D whistle, my left-hand fingers are only at a slight angle, so I can cover all the holes with the middle section of each finger. With the flute, my left hand is at such an angle that I'm hitting at least one hole with a joint and not getting a seal on the hole.

So I've been using regular grip, but ... have been having pain all around that fleshy part at the base of the thumb and across the palm.

Any suggestions on either accomplishing the piper's grip or else adjusting my current grip? Here's a photo of what I'm doing right now (although my wrist isn't usually bent back quite that much ... it's just that I was taking the photo with my other hand):

(Or could it be just a strength issue that will improve with time? I'm only just picking up flute again after many years.)

Lisa

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