Does ornamentation cover up bad playing?

[headwizer]

Some musicians play tunes with so much ornamentation that the melody is kind of lost and it all sounds like a dazzling barrage of notes. I know it takes great skill to ornament correctly, but can ornaments dazzle so much that a so-so musician can sound like a pro or semi-pro?

[fyffer]

I don't believe a "so-so" player can ornament properly enough to dazzle. That said, I do believe that too much ornamentation is often in poor taste, and amounts to showboating in many cases.

I'm not a good enough player to even fake it like that so perhaps I'm all wet, but from the stuff I've heard, too much is not always a good thing.

All things in moderation, even moderation.

[Dragon]

It takes some skill and control to use ornamentation. So, the players that use lots of ornamentation (I don't think) are unskilled players. The flute (esp. the wood flute) is not a very "forgiving" instrument.

But many people would concider too much ornamentation as "incorrect" but that is very subjective. I get the sence that many players are using lots of ornamentation to add interest to a song that was most likely used for dancing to. Irish dance music is very Predictable and redundant by nature. *Its hard to dance to something in unison that has a chaotic nature* . But for “listening” music, chaotic or unpredictable is more interesting (hence the popularity of Jazz).

[Kysh]

Some musicians play tunes with so much ornamentation that the melody is kind of lost and it all sounds like a dazzling barrage of notes. I know it takes great skill to ornament correctly, but can ornaments dazzle so much that a so-so musician can sound like a pro or semi-pro?

No-- Ornamentation accentuates the flaws in poor playing. The listener doesn't notice immediately, but as soon as it becomes apparent, it sounds a billion times worse.

'Huffers' usually use ornamentation as a crutch in this way.

But what do I know? To borrow a signature from a friend,
"Don't mind me, I'm little."

-Kysh

[AaronMalcomb]

No-- Ornamentation accentuates the flaws in poor playing.

You took the words out of my mouth, Kysh.

Cheers,
Aaron

[Jack]

No-- Ornamentation accentuates the flaws in poor playing.

You took the words out of my mouth, Kysh.

Cheers,
Aaron

I agree.

[rama]

does ornamentation cover up bad playing?


yup. seems to work for me.

i mean why else would you ornament?

isn't that the point?

[eilam]

rama - I kind of suspected that all that great playing was a cover up
me - I just wear dark sunglasses, and no one suspects I'm KGB !

[glauber]

can ornaments dazzle so much that a so-so musician can sound like a pro or semi-pro?

Of course! That's what it's for!

[eilam]

just like deodorant on bad B.O.

[Wombat]

just like deodorant on bad B.O.

I use B.O. to cover up bad deodorant.

[BoneQuint]

I think poor but copious ornamentation can sound impressive to some people, especially those who don't know much about music. I'm sure some people use it for that reason.

Very good ornamentation doesn't call attention to itself, because it's played crisply and at the "right times." So a better player can sound like they're ornamenting less than they are.

[sturob]

Having learned on the pipes long ago, I think that ornamentation is just that. Ornamentation. On the pipes, we'd learn the tunes without gracing, and then add gracing as we got accustomed to the melody. Finally, you'd drill the (standardized) ornamentation into your head, and there you were.

The thing I notice about listening to people who ornament to cover up deficiencies in playing . . . aside from the lack of line in the melody, is that the gracings/ornaments tend to stand out. Even a cran is just dressing or accentuation, it's the notes on either side of the cran that matter.

In my opinion.

Stuart

[sturob]

I suppose I should comment that I'm using ornamentation and gracing interchangeably, when in fact they are not necessarily interchangeable.

So . . . hmm. I apologize for offending.


Stuart

[jim stone]

I know I've sometimes found that, in passages where I was
ornamenting, if I tried to play the passage unornamented
I couldn't. I was using ornaments to disguise passages
I really couldn't finger yet.