Experiences of the session?

[peeplj]

I've a question, raised in part by a series of topics over the last couple of years, for those of you who attend or have visisted sessions.

What is your experience of the session?

I'm looking not just for good or bad, here, though these are possible answers, of course.

I'm thinking along the lines of:

--do the musicians seem to be playing a definite list of tunes in a predetermined order, or are they playing tunes or sets of tunes in no definite order?

--do the musicians all know each other or does there seem to be new faces from time to time?

--do one or two players seem to start (or name) most of the tunes, do they take turns, or is it just the next player with a tune in his head?

--do most of the players seem to be on the same general level of playing, or is there a wider range of skill and ability?

--does one musician decide when it's time to go home, and the session end all at once formally (maybe with a special tune), or do players slip away as the evening progresses?

--is the style of playing more bouncy, more driving, or mixed from tune to tune?

--how fast are tunes played?

--is there a preponderance of one time of tune (i.e. reels), or is a wide variety played?

--what day of the week does the session usually fall on? what are the starting and ending times?

--if you were visiting a session, did you play? a few tunes or most? how were you recieved by the other players?

--if you have a steady session you attend, what is the attitude towards newcomers playing with the session? (Note that "newcomers" just means "new to your session," not necessarily "beginning players.")

--what venue(s) does your session play in? pubs? coffee houses? homes? resteraunts? libraries? outside? inside? etc...

--are the sessions of which you have experience primarilly "open" or "closed"?

--what are the mix of instruments played?

Of course, I've my own experiences and thoughts on all of this, but I have become curious to see if my experiences are the norm or are considered relatively unusual, so I thought I'd ask.

After a few folks respond I'll add my own experiences.

Thanks,

--James

[djm]

Lots of variations on all of these. It really depends on each individual group.

If there are more advanced/senior players, these are the ones who set the pace, choose the tunes, etc. Learn who they are for any group.

If its a group of wannabes, there are few rules other than common respect.

Some sessions are open to all. Some sessions are by invitation only. Some are for advanced players. Some are for beginners. Its a real hodge-podge. There are few hard and fast rules.

There are several books on session etiquette, but the people who need to know these things most are usually the last ones to read them.

djm

[peeplj]

Well, yeah, but I was really hoping folks would talk about sessions they've been to, instead of sessions in general.

I'm looking for specific experiences, here, hoping folks will share their experiences of the session, good and bad.

I do appreciate the input, though.

--James

[susnfx]

When I knew I was going to be getting together with a group of people in another state, I emailed the host and asked him to name some tunes they played fairly regularly so I would be able to play along or could learn a couple before the get-together. I've never been to any type of session where there was a playlist or the tunes were played in any order.

An anecdote in answer to your question about playing more of a certain type of tune: A little group of us got together at my house when a woman was coming in from out of town and wanted to play some tunes. She was obviously a very good fiddle player and knew a lot of tunes, especially reels. She said something like, "You can always tell an immature session - they always play jigs." So I suppose, at least in her experience, more mature sessions play more reels.

In my experience locally, someone with a tune in their head would start playing and the others would join in. A beginner just coming in would undoubtedly be asked what tunes they knew so they'd have some opportunities to play. There's never been a "leader" - although some folks might be deferred to simply because of greater experience and knowledge of more tunes.

Susan

[Bloomfield]

I've a question, raised in part by a series of topics over the last couple of years, for those of you who attend or have visisted sessions.

What is your experience of the session?

I'm looking not just for good or bad, here, though these are possible answers, of course.

I'm thinking along the lines of:

--do the musicians seem to be playing a definite list of tunes in a predetermined order, or are they playing tunes or sets of tunes in no definite order?

Different from session to session in my experience. One session I go to occasionally has very distinct fashionable tunes, like you'd hear Cross the Fence a lot for a few months and then it would fade again. I have never been to a session where there was a predetermined list of tunes, and I don't think I'd like it, either. One (large) session I used go to a lot has a leader who calls each set, usually after conferring with the experienced players close by. I used to request tunes from him occasionally, and he was usually happy to oblige.

--do the musicians all know each other or does there seem to be new faces from time to time?

New faces from time to time, core of people who know each other more or less. New people are always welcome, when you sit down close by with an instrument case, people will ask you your name invite you in, ask you where you from. After an half an hour or so, newcomers/blow-ins are usually asked to start a set, or to "play us one of yours."

--do one or two players seem to start (or name) most of the tunes, do they take turns, or is it just the next player with a tune in his head?

Different from session to session of course. Mostly everyone gets to start the next tune if they want. It's not so nice if people don't leave any space between tunes, if people hog the session by starting many sets. Sometimes players will be asked to hold off if someone is gathering courage to start a song. Non-regulars or harpists will be asked to start sets.

--do most of the players seem to be on the same general level of playing, or is there a wider range of skill and ability?

I'd say among those I've participated in, there are some sessions that very good players don't attend regularly and some sessions beginners don't attend regularly.

--does one musician decide when it's time to go home, and the session end all at once formally (maybe with a special tune), or do players slip away as the evening progresses?

One session (the one with the leader mentioned above) always ended at ten with the Dingle Regatta. :roll: Another continues until closing time, but some players arrive late, some players leave early. In my experience, beginners tend to leave early, so that several sessions I've been to get better the later it gets. Many sessions also get better the smaller they get, and I often feel that the last hour of a session is the best.

--is the style of playing more bouncy, more driving, or mixed from tune to tune?

I don't understand the question.

--how fast are tunes played?

My sense is that it is considered polite to play a tune at the speed it was started (that is, not to speed up on someone else's tune).

--is there a preponderance of one time of tune (i.e. reels), or is a wide variety played?

In my experience, the better the players the more reels you hear. But that may also be a New York thing.

--what day of the week does the session usually fall on? what are the starting and ending times?

--if you were visiting a session, did you play? a few tunes or most? how were you recieved by the other players?

--if you have a steady session you attend, what is the attitude towards newcomers playing with the session? (Note that "newcomers" just means "new to your session," not necessarily "beginning players.")

--what venue(s) does your session play in? pubs? coffee houses? homes? resteraunts? libraries? outside? inside? etc...

--are the sessions of which you have experience primarilly "open" or "closed"?

--what are the mix of instruments played?

Of course, I've my own experiences and thoughts on all of this, but I have become curious to see if my experiences are the norm or are considered relatively unusual, so I thought I'd ask.

After a few folks respond I'll add my own experiences.

Thanks,

--James

Before I go on, will you tell me what you are trying to find out? Thanks.

[susnfx]

Mix of instruments has varied widely.

Whistle, flute, fiddle, pipes, box, bodhran, guitar are the most usual around here. On any given night you might have 2-3 whistle players, with one or two of those who change off with flute, pipe player who also plays bodhran, etc. So even though you've got 4-5 people, you've got more instruments than that.

Are you considering starting a session?

Susan

[Baglady]

I've a question, raised in part by a series of topics over the last couple of years, for those of you who attend or have visisted sessions.

What is your experience of the session?

I'm looking not just for good or bad, here, though these are possible answers, of course.

I'm thinking along the lines of:

--do the musicians seem to be playing a definite list of tunes in a predetermined order, or are they playing tunes or sets of tunes in no definite order?

People start tunes as they feel so inclined. Some have a deffinate set they play together and others string whatever together. Sometimes people will ask each other "What was the one that comes after that one?" but no one remembers and we end up just starting something else. You follow whoever started the set. It is rude to jump in with another tune.

--do the musicians all know each other or does there seem to be new faces from time to time?

This is very dynamic. There are several different groups that are more comfortable with each other and tend to show up at the same time. Sometimes someone will bring a friend or a visitor from out of state. People float in and out and it is usually different every time.

--do one or two players seem to start (or name) most of the tunes, do they take turns, or is it just the next player with a tune in his head?

The last.

--do most of the players seem to be on the same general level of playing, or is there a wider range of skill and ability?

Water tends to find it's own level and each session, we are lucky enough to have several, tends to fall into it's own level.

--does one musician decide when it's time to go home, and the session end all at once formally (maybe with a special tune), or do players slip away as the evening progresses?

People come and go as they feel inclined.

--is the style of playing more bouncy, more driving, or mixed from tune to tune?

You follow the leader, whatever style they lead off with.

--how fast are tunes played?

Wherever the tune is happy.

--is there a preponderance of one time of tune (i.e. reels), or is a wide variety played?

Tune types tend to be more and more varied as people play more together.

--what day of the week does the session usually fall on? what are the starting and ending times?

Sunday 6-10 PM, Monday 8-close, Wednesday 9-close, Friday 8-close.

--if you were visiting a session, did you play? a few tunes or most? how were you recieved by the other players?

A new session I usually listen or play quietly if I fit in.

--if you have a steady session you attend, what is the attitude towards newcomers playing with the session? (Note that "newcomers" just means "new to your session," not necessarily "beginning players.")

All are wecome.

--what venue(s) does your session play in? pubs? coffee houses? homes? resteraunts? libraries? outside? inside? etc...

pubs

--are the sessions of which you have experience primarilly "open" or "closed"?

open

--what are the mix of instruments played?

Whatever comes through the door. Sometimes a wall of pipes, others a quorum of fiddles. It's always different.

Cheers

[eskin]

Well, yesterday I visited a monthly out-of-town session about 100 miles from where I live. I've been going there off and on for a couple of years.

At 5 PM, I was confronted with:

In this corner:
5 guitars playing backup
1 string bass
1 bouzouki
A minimum of 2 bodhrans
A happy hour buffet with a pub full of boisterous patrons, so loud I couldn't hear either of the 2 guitars sitting on either side of me.

And the challengers:
Me on the Uilleann pipes (Kirk Lynch 3/4 set, not loud by any standards)
1 Fiddler

Ever try and play the pipes and call out chords at the same time. Quite challenging. Should be an Olympic event. "Uilleann Chord Yelling"

Beer is my friend.

After about 4 hours of this, at 9 PM, most of the noise quieted down, backup was down to just the bouzouki, and my favorite flute and banjo players were there to share some tunes for a hour or so, so all in all it wasn't a bad day and worth the drive...

Cheers,

Michael

[peeplj]

Good answers, and good stuff.

Bloomfield, I don't have a particular goal in mind, except maybe that I think sometimes its easy to get a not-so-rosy view of sessions from the whistle board, and I stubbornly tend to think most poeple have positive experiences with sessions.

Susan, there was a weekly session in Texarkana I helped start; now that I've moved, there is a large, active session in the central Arkansas area, and I am thrilled to find it is a very open, friendly group.

These two sessions I have been involved in have been a very positive experience, and a source of fast, firm friendships.

There was also a third session I visited once in Dallas, which was also a very positive experience.

But I don't think any of these sessions fits the impression I would get of what a session is by reading the whistle board, if I didn't already know from my own experience.

I guess that's why this thread: just hoping people will share their experiences and thoughts, good and bad, so that we all get a better idea of the variety of circumstances and experiences that are available in sessions.

I'll post my own, more detailed answers to the questions later.

--James

[janice]

Hi James-my personal session experiences sound alot like Bloomie's (gasp!) and have run the gamut from great (for various reasons-not all musical) to lousy to indifferent. The local session I attend now plays an interesting mix of Irish, Scottish, and Ontario fiddling tunes which everyone seems to know, and geography has everything to do with the musical mix. It started out as an Irish session, but there are a lot of Scottish people around here (hence the Scottish tunes) and an old time Ontario fiddling tradition that is also really strong (and comes directly from Scottish fiddling), so there is always an excess of really good fiddlers.

Weirdest session memory-about ten years ago. Three guys came in-one had an mbira, another a dijiridoo, and the third guy had a fiddle which he played (really) badly. Not to mention that he'd taken some kind of pharmeceticals before arriving. They'd worked out some pretty awful arrangements of some pretty awful tunes and it didn't take long for them to clear out the place. We (thankfully) never saw them again...

[meemtp]

Hi James,

Our session here runs a narrower gamut. All ITM, but a good mix of tunes and players. Rarely do we have guitars show up which is fine by me. We have a very good Zouk player , 2 pipers (one of whom also plays fiddle) usually 1-2 fiddles, a box and concertina player (a 19 year old phenom named Chris Stevens, watch out for him, he'll be big, he's *&%@ing amazing) , the occaisional bodhran, and others. I Find that 6 people or less seems to make the best session. Personally, my ultimate favorites are house sessions. I've been at a few lately that were just myself on flute, one guy on fiddle, and a 3rd playing octave mando and guitar. We've had some fantastic flute/fiddle duets.

The tunes vary from swinging, to more straight ahead, depending on the tune and who starts it.

I've noticed that the flavor of our session tends to be more dependent on how everyone feels that day, rather than who's there. If we core players are feeling tired or under the weather, we take a lot more breaks, play more common tune s at a more relaxed tempo. If we're all peppy, it tends to be a more fiery time. It's interesting that the feel of a session can be so linked to the personalities and how everyone feels. That's one of the joys of a good session I think. The music is always good, just different flavors from occaision to occaision. Hope this stream of consciousness babbling helps your query.

Corin

[Guest]

Depends on where you are.

Ireland has very high standards but no drive and sometimes ruddy awfull rhythm, but the better players are not 'bully queens' so beginners are encouraged and helped.

The UK ,and to some extent near Continental Europe, has great drive but low standards so more advanced players tend not to be noticed - maybe they are having a hard time keeping up with the rest? - rarely 'bully queens' and never a problem if a messer does join in, Briitish manners I guess.

The US is all about 'queens' and their little cliques, there is no communal spirit to it and most of the time the loudest bully rules the roost. I've seen people come in with their instruments and then seen them leave without trying to join in. Shame!

Our local session, for example, is peppered with begrudgers who pretty much bad mouth me if I turn up, but the very small number of accomplished players always ask if I have my box. I don't because it is broken.

After a few months I discovered that the begrudgers are 'older' failed wannabe fiddlers/fluters etc and they come out to bad mouth and spoil the evening for all but the few queens who can survive the horrid atmosphere.

I now stay home and play with two adult fiddlers who live with me, and even though one is barely over a years school tuition, can play a few jigs already!

Sessions in the USA are sh1te IMHO ...

Btw I can play either whistle, fiddle, banjo, pipes, or my 1920's 4 stopper D Hohner Melodian - now needing repair As well I love playing my Martin and singing folk songs - including OC Oirish stuff.

Occasionaly I go to Bluegrass/Oldtimey festivals where I mostly play my Tu Ba Phone doing clawhammer and Paddy Katolickin the racist assholes I nearly always meet, if I get lots of craick out of that, I then switch to OT Scruggs style and really wind em up by having my African American friend play the Martin.

Still a Blues nut after all these years - oh wyyyyeaaaahhhh

[janice]

Ok, I have more to add after reading meemtp's and toasty's replies..

Although I enjoy playing in the large session I attend regularly (6-8 fiddles, 3 upipers. scottish small piper, 2 fluters, a box player, piano, bouzuki/banjo, harp), my favorite sessions are always house sessions with 4-6 people. The large session is enjoyable because everyone gets along, no egos, etc and as far as style, goes from swinging and to hard swinging. Two or three people tend to start tunes, but encourage other folks to start tunes also.

I like toasty's term of "bully queens." I can't speak for all of North America, but the most unpleasant session I've ever attended takes place in a large city three hours from here (hint: their hockey team hasn't won the Stanley Cup since 1967). Very cliquey session, newcomers are made to feel unwelcome, very little socializing going on, and very little smiling (I've often wondered why some of these people play music anyway). Needless to say, egos are HUGE (and sometimes for no reason!). Some of the best players in this city don't attend the session for those reasons, or attend just when there is someone special in town. Either way, it's a very good example of what a session shouldn't be (IMHO).

[peeplj]

Good stuff, great replies!

I told you I'd share a little bit about my own experiences, which are probably not typical.

I started playing Irish tunes pretty much self-taught even though I had played flute for a long time and had some classical training. After I had been playing them a while I started trying to contact other Texarkana musicians who were interested in this music, and met Pat McReynolds and his family, a very musical family (mine wasn't growing up), and we stared playing together.

After we had played together for a year or so we started a local session in Texarkana. It tooks several forms and happened in several venues, usually about 5 or 6 musicians, sometimes more, but sometimes just Pat, his son Sam, and myself.

After we had played these sessions and I started putting some music on my website, two things happened which really jumpstarted things. One is Michael Cronnolly, who is one of Ireland's most generous men, saw to it I had a decent flute to learn on...at the time the old German 8-key that got me into this music was still bit leaky, and playing it was sometimes a pretty "wheezy" affair. The other is I started taking Scoiltrad lessons on flute and whistle. Both of these together finally got us playing something that on a good day actually started to sound like Irish trad music.

And the sessions picked up steam and we started getting a group of folks show up every week, some to listen, some to play.

Then I got laid off and had to move to where the work was, which brings us to the present.

They have a very active Irish trad scene here, some very good players. There is a "travelling session" that plays in various places(Conway, Hot Springs Village, Little Rock) several times a month, usually with about ten or so musicians, sometimes more.

My skill level fits this session well; I feel I'm more or less in the middle of the skill range. There are a few folks who are much further down the road, and I'm loving the chance to learn the music from them first-hand.

Everyone has been very welcoming, very friendly. It's a very open session; I've run across no egos yet. There is no session "leader," pretty much anyone can start a tune whose got one in his head. The only rule is once someone starts playing, of course, you can't start playing something else.

The volume in this session is quite a bit softer overall even though there are more players, and the playing is more musical. There is a good variety of tune types played, though in both sessions the preponderance was reels, then jigs, then hornpipes, then slip-jigs, then everything else. These sessions are also more bouncy, not quite as driving on most tunes.

I suppose I'm lucky: I've never really had a problem with anyone in person, and I've found trad musicians to be some of the nicest and most outgoing folks I've run across, very polite, very friendly.

So I would encourage everyone:

--if you're in a good session, love it and cherish it and enjoy every second of it;

--if you've tried sessions but had bad luck or encountered unfriendly people, please try again someday with a different session;

and, of course, if you're ever in the central Arkansas area and want to sit in, you'd be more than welcome! You can get a list of where and when we play at

www.celticmusiclive.com

--James

[Cayden]

James posted this thread partly in response to what he perceived as not so positive experiences of sessions expressed by some people, including myself in the thread:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=21523

Unfortunately he left that thread well before, after venting frustrations with some session experiences, the thread took a positive turn.

In the other thread I said something like ‘sessions are a by-product of music making but to me playing in sessions not the aim of playing music’. I enjoy playing with other people, I prefer to play in duet settings or threes or fours, over that too much nuance gets lost to make playing in such a setting satisfying in the long term. Piping as well as most other playing is at it's best done solo. On the short term it can be fun though. A good night of music can leave you walking on air for days. And someone walking in ruining it by sheer ignorance or incompetence can leave you grumpy for days too. But that's the way.

I live in a place where there is great music all around. For example on last Saturday night the usual session in Friel’s was on with Brid Donoghue and Bernadette McCarthy playing, Young Tommy McCarthy dropped in, over from Boston, to play with his sister and Brid. Sean McNamara, fiddler and long time leader of the Liverpool ceiliband was there as well as some other local musicians. A pretty common session for around here. During the night though Sharon Shannon walked in to play and soon after her Matt Molloy and Sean Keane crammed into the (tiny) kitchen and there was wild music into the early hours. It is an environment where you get a slightly different outlook on sessions than your average US player who frequents this forum. Sorry James, but that’s the way it is.

As for myself, there’s one session I play in regularly (and a few I go to when the mood takes me and there are people I sit down wit hat home or other occasions). It is in Gleeson’s of Coore and I have been there every Sunday night (bar nights given to travel abroad, bereavement and hospitlisation etc ). This is a session that has been in place from 1978. While the history of the house goes back 124 years. It was a session started by Junior Crehan and local musicians. A country pub, the music catered for dancers as much as for listeners. The fort was held for a long time by Junior and his compatriots, Josie Hayes on flute, Michael Downes, Paddy Galvin, Pat Kelly, and Mickie Cleary. Affectionately known as ‘dad’s Army’ and sometimes with less reverence ‘the stiff six’.





(photo: Barry Taylor)

Over the years just about ‘everybody’ darkened the door of the pub t oplay a few tunes, there were no ‘stars’ inside, the session was always an open one with a place for every decent player.
Old age and death diminished the original group and several musicians took seats in the core group of the session. I was invited in by junior in 1997, after Tommy Munnelly let the word out I was a piper (after moving to Clare I went to listen to Junior play every week, keeping to myself, absorbing the music). playing just the C pipes I took to the tinwhsitle as my instrument for playing out.

After Junior died in 1998 the session was reshaped, Jackie Daly had just moved into the area and he became the session’s new anchor, while other accordeonplayers like Conor Keane and more recently Josephine Marsh have filled the seat while Jackie was away on tour. During the same time, playing the pipes, I developed a duet and great friendship with local concertinaplayer Kitty Hayes, who went back to concertinaplaying during the early 90’s after being away from playing for 45 years. We thoroughly enjoy playing together, complementing eachothers playing . Jackie asked us to do an appearances on most nights for the past five years or so, the two of us playing in C. We’ve become a feature of the session I suppose.

The session is an open session but it’s not a free for all, Jackie has his own inimitable way of setting the program, on busy nights the core of the session is playing on a small stage joined by guests with more room for guests around the stage. Instruments vary, the accordeon aside there’s usually at least one flute, a fiddle and one or two concertinas, I play the whistle in this group. On occasion the session grows to around ten, rarely over though especially during the summer large groups occasionally have been known to play (one time Catherine McEvoy arrived with some twenty or thirty pupils, that was a big night with musicians in every corner). The core group aside, you never know who might walk through the door.
During the night usually a few sets are danced, the musicians ofcourse providing the music, occasionally visiting step dancers do a step or two. After playing music singers are usually called upon for a few lines of a song.


Dancing a set to the music of Eamon McGivney,, Michael Downes, Conor Keane Angela Crehan and PJ Crotty, Christmas eve 1997(photo Peter Laban)

That’s the way of the session in Gleeson’s. Unfortunately all is coming to an end. The licence of the pub has been sold and the pub is to close in a few weeks time. It has rightfully been called the end of an era, the end of one of the truly great houses of traditional music.


Last night the house was full, people trying to get a few nights out of it while it’s there. On stage were, myself aside, Ado Morris playing guitar, Sean McNamara of the Liverpool ceiliband playing fiddle, Jackie Daly playing accordeon and Susie Cox playing concertina, our usual and brilliant fluteplayer Mike Dyer arrived late and had to find a spot in the back row. Around the stage was a group of maybe another eight players, Josephine Marsh played accordeon and fiddle, she brought two friend who played lovely on fiddles, there were visitors from France and Japan and a guitar player from the US. We played , Kitty and myself did our duo spot, joined by Joe Mccaw from Ennistymon on the concertina, and Ado helping on guitar and whistle. Joe played a few tunes with Jackie, Josephine played a few tunes and played them beautifully with her two friends.
Susie sang after as did others.
It was a great night but, as the whole thing is about to fold, one with a palpable sadness in the air.


[edited to tweak a few sentences]