Music for holes 7 & 8

[talasiga]

[from another topic]
..........

I have a question about the Irish flute though. What the heck do you do with an 8 holer? It would seem to be quite impossible to reach the extra two holes, are they for alternate or some special tuning adjustments? Anyway, since my supply of ready funds has just been spent, I was thinking about getting a Tipple pvc flute, hopefully a decent enough instrument to begin on.

They are there to establish/anchor the tonic properly
and I haven't expressed that too well.
Perhaps someone lke Kevin Krell or eilam may be able explain it better.

And no,
you are not expected to play them.
However they may be played.
If you don't have a D note in the piece you're playing
you can sticky tape the "7th" or both (7th and 8th) holes to get
a beautiful low C# or C as required.

[Unseen122]

Or you could get an extended C foot instaled onto your flute.

[talasiga]

my interst in Monster's question
and in starting this topic
turns on

simple system D key flutes which have
unreachable and unkeyed 7th and 8th holes
and how and when they might be used from time to time
without major makeovers of the flute ......

thanks

[Jayhawk]

I'm eating lots of genetically modified crops in hope of growing a second right arm to cover the bottom two vent holes...obviously, I only need two fingers to do this which makes it easier as a talon might work as well as an arm.

[Monster]

Talasiga,

No worries here, I think your explanation is quite adequate thanks! Basically, get an 8 holer if it grabs your fancy, otherwise just stick to a stock 6 holer, and start making hay.

I'll probably go for the 8 hole version, as I like the idea of squeezing a couple of extra notes out every now and then with tape or a rubber band and piece of cardboard or whatever.

[talasiga]

I'm eating lots of genetically modified crops in hope of growing a second right arm to cover the bottom two vent holes...obviously, I only need two fingers to do this which makes it easier as a talon might work as well as an arm.

I would strongly recommend eating some organically grown foods also.
Its very very difficult to play flute if you've got a big beak.

[Doug_Tipple]

People often ask about the two holes at the end of the flute. Actually, they are non-fingered exhaust ports, which allows the flute body to be longer without changing the fundamental pitch of the flute. A longer flute body and a longer column of air produces a louder tone. Also, on some flutes the 8-hole flutes may be more stable in the second octave.

On some flute designs all of the air exhausts through the two ports, and no air exhausts through the end of the flute. You might try putting a stopper in the end of the flute and see how it plays. Does anyone have any comments about the advisability of doing this?

Best wishes and happy fluting,
Doug Tipple

[Doug_Tipple]

In rereading the thread I see that I missed the question. The question is: what happens when you put tape over one or both of the exhaust ports? It is true that with all fingers down you can get a low note, but whether you get anything close to a C or a C# depends on how long the flute extends beyond the second exhaust port. Keyed flutes are designed so that you will get the C#, but with open holed flutes that may not be true.

Also, when you tape one of the exhaust ports, it alters the intonation of the whole flute. Having a good C# and eveything else way off pitch isn't such a good idea, in my opinion. With a keyed flute you cover the 7th hole when you want a C#, but otherwise the hole is open.

Cheers,
Doug Tipple

[talasiga]

.......
Also, when you tape one of the exhaust ports, it alters the intonation of the whole flute. Having a good C# and eveything else way off pitch isn't such a good idea, in my opinion. With a keyed flute you cover the 7th hole when you want a C#, but otherwise the hole is open.

Cheers,
Doug Tipple

Yes I can't disagree with you on issues of precise intonation here
but the liminal intonation status (please excuse my clumsy expression)
can be part of the beauty.

It depends on the music you're playing.
For instance I play a Marwa raag with a C tonic (that's a cross-fingered C)
the raag scale is

C C# E F# (G) A B

and the intonation is fine with this because it is a mysterious
slightly off-sounding scale and even in the Indian tradition
it is acknowledged for this.
The fifth note isn't used in the actual raag and
its vadi is the second which is C#.
In the absence of a 5th there is no primary harmonic for the tonic
and the secondary harmonic of the 4th is also non existant in this scale
because the 4th has been augmented.
However the diminished 2nd, the C#, has a secondary harmonic relationship
with the F# and resolves the raag.
So the low "perfect" C# works quite well.
Also, the question of the D intonation does not arise because D is omitted.
The intonations of F# the secondary harmonic to C# and the samvadi
note of B work very well.

Also, typically, for raags with an augmented 4th
the scale begins on the lower 7th and misses the "off" tonic
unti the final "resolution"

ascending: B- C# E F# A B A C+

decending: B C#+ B A F# E C# B- A- C

This is just an expression of the scale.
Try before you buy.

[BmacD]

As per Doug's suggestion I put a stopper in the end of my M&E R&R and it played fine, with maybe a small change in the upper octave. But with my low fidelity ears I can't be sure. Sort of explains how walking stick flutes work.
Bruce