Boehm flutists: what is this grip called?

[peeplj]

We have several good Boehm-system flutists on the board, and I'm hoping you may be able to solve a puzzle for me.

When I was in college years ago, Dr. Steinquest showed me a grip where the keywork is balanced on top of the flute, the tone holes facing somewhat forward, and the headjoint rolled considerably in to accomodate this.

There was a name for this grip, and I've driven myself nuts trying to remember it, but it's just gone out of my head.

Does anyone know the name of this grip? Has anyone had experience with it? I never could make it work, but at the time I also didn't know I had the beginnings of some real joint troubles.

Thanks for any info.

--James

[illuminatus99]

don't know what it's called but I've been playing that way for years, most flute players I know just call it "wrong"

[Tom O'Farrell]

"Rockstro" grip comes to mind. Rockstro was a player and writer of an influential flute book, active during the latter part of the 1800's in England. The theory is that you can hold the boehm system flute with only the left hand if you roll the body out a bit more than normally seen with the keys lined up along the top so that it balances on your left hand index finger, when you really relax the hold, without rolling in. The theory is solid enough I think, but I don't use it nor does anybody else I have seen because the right arm is lifted up would get too tired too quickly and it feels uncomfortable for long playing periods, say an entire concerto of about 30 minutes. James Galway, and I suppose we should listen to him after all, advocates a more firm hold with the left hand and pressing the flute more firmly into the mouth, without being ridiculous. He wants you to be able to hold and play the flute with only the left hand doing most if not all of the work of holding the flute with no tendancy for the flute to roll in because you are being fairly firm and this is better logic to me, because using the right hand smoothly at speed for the 3 notes below D, what I call the foot-joint notes of C# C and B, can be difficult if you don't have the right hand knuckles parallel to the flute body bringing the right hand pinkie finger closer to the foot-joint, you tend to jerk the flute if the pinkie is too far away and this may affect your mouth, but with correct right hand position it does not offer much support to the flute.

[peeplj]

Usually when I think Rockstro (or "James"--not me, another James) Grip, I'm thinking more of balancing the flute with 3 points of contact so that all the fingers and the left thumb are free. The contact points are chin pushing out, right hand thumb behind the flute instead of beneath pushing out, and the left-hand first finger acting as a fulcrum.

This is in fact how I've had to come to hold the flute as illustrated on flutesite:

http://www.flutesite.com/posture_&_grip.htm

I believe Dr. Steinquest had another name for the keys-balanced-on-top grip; I do remember it required the right thumb to be beneath the flute instead of behind it and the flute balances on the thumb. Also what I think of as "Rockstro" works with any flute, Beohm or simple-system, whereas this grip requires the heavy keywork of the Boehm to hold the flute in balance.

If I remember right his main argument for this grip (which he did use himself) was that having the tone holes face as forward as possible increases your projection without you having to "overdrive" the sound of the flute.

I always pushed for a harder, more ringing tone than he thought was in good taste, and I still do: in Irish music that tone has found its home.

I appreciate all responses. Ya'll are good folks.

--James

[Dana]

H'mm. I studied with John Solum (English flutist) for one summer and he advocated something similar. It was basically a Rockstro, with the headjoint rolled in quite a bit, allowing the left-hand keywork to roll forward somewhat. He believed that this allowed for more freedom for the fingers, so that you didn't have to grasp the flute, rather balance it. He had me place my right thumb underneath the flute to balance the flute, rather than push forward. He had a big, windy, English sound which didn't much appeal to me at the time, although I'd probably appreciate it much more now.

Sorry, if he ever told me a name for this, I don't remember. James, do you place your right hand thumb behind the flute pushing out? This seems to me that it could cause extra tension in that hand. I balance the flute just distal to the final knuckle of the right thumb, with the thumb rotated at about a 45 degree angle. YMMV, it depends on hand size. You don't, however want to hold the flute with that hand, you want to balance it on the thumb and allow the fingers freedom.

I also studied with a guy that had knew the Alexander technique. Many music physical therapists out there teach that you need to eliminate any source of unnecessary tension. Thus, any extra pressure by chin, knuckles, thumbs, neck or whatever should be avoided. I like the Rockstro idea of balance, but I don't like the thought of any extra pressure being used to achieve that balance.

Anyway, long answer to say that I don't know the name of that posture, other than Rockstro. Sorry!

Dana

[peeplj]

Well, maybe it is a variant Rockstro then.

Yep, my right thumb sits (depending on the diameter of the flute) either partially or completely behind the flute, pushing out with the tip of the thumb, the thumb being about halfway between the first and second finger on the tube.

Take at look at http://www.flutesite.com/posture_&_grip.htm and you'll see what I mean.

This completely frees the fingers and I can hold up even a heavy flute for hours this way without anything hurting or cramping. Also, it completely frees the left thumb, which lets me use the B-flat key on a simple system flute with great ease.

When my hands were bad, I couldn't sit the flute on top of the thumb at all, it hurt too bad to play. So I developed a grip where I didn't hold the flute up at all, I just took away every direction it could fall. I used this grip for over a year before I found out it was basically Rockstro.

I do have pretty short fingers and thumbs, though; I'm not sure someone with long fingers or thumbs could make this work as well. Short fingers and broad palms run in my family.

Now that the arthritis is gone (and hopefully not ever to return) I still use this grip as it allows me extremely fast and effecient fingering.

--James

[Dana]

Yeah, the arthritis is gone, that's great news!

Interesting approach, pushing forward with the right thumb. I played around with it once, without liking it. For me, it placed too much stress on my right hand. Ya just gotta do what works for your own hand.

One method I've taught: While holding the flute, take your hand away (right or left), shake it out to relax it completely, and then bring it up to the flute and see where the fingers fall. Often you can drape your completely relaxed hand into a position where the fingers cover the toneholes, or at least come close. This should be your most comfortable position, that provides freedom to the fingers, with least tension. It will look a bit different on everyone.

(BTW, I can't make this work on the Irish flute. That space between holes 2-3 and 5-6 is just way bigger than my comfortable stretch).

Dana

[glauber]

Interesting approach, pushing forward with the right thumb. I played around with it once, without liking it.

I think this is more useful fo rthe 8-key ("Irish") flute than for the Boehm, because for that kind of flute you need to be able to move the left thumb freely (for the Bb key) and also move most other fingers sideways to operate keys. With the Boehm flute, the movements are much simpler (mostly up-down, very few sideways movements) and it allows you to keep the right pinky down on the D# key 95% of the time, effectively creating anohter hold point.

g