drone reeds

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:28 pm

okay...as i'm working on drones for the brass chanter set, i've discovered that life gets so much simpler if i can give the drones double reeds like the regs, since i have my double reeds working decently now, and all brass drone reeds i've heard are less than wonderful sounding (as are the ones i've made)

is there a particular reason why drones couldn't be double bladed like the reg reeds, or is it only convention that had them develop as single reeds? I'd need to know because it would change the size of the holes needed in the mainstock, and would make the instructions simpler, with the prospective builder only having to learn how to make one kind of reed from cream cheese containers.

btw, put a bridle on the best of those reeds so far and works like a dream in my britton chanter, but will play in tune in no other. but hey, that was the one that most needed re-reeding anyway so i'm not complaining...

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:04 pm

Just a guess, but if single reeds are set up right, they will not be as prone to changing pitch as would a double reed when you change pressure to jump octaves. Why make a brass single reed? There are lots of examples of composite single reeds made of other materials.

djm

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:01 pm

well, a couple reasons

i've tried three different plastics, two different woods, and five different thicknesses of brass before i found anything that could play passibly. i've kinda set myself up with a difficult goal in that everything needs to be readily available from your average hobby store and i'm trying to keep the full-set price under the cost of a daye pennychanter.

i thought about the overblowing thing, but found that i couldn't really get it to overblow in the drone while mouth blowing, and i figure since regs are never supposed to overblow, but are set in the same bag with the same pressure i don't see why is should be a problem for the drones.

honestly, the best reed i've found for a drone of the ones i've made is a messed up chanter reed that the blades are too narrow and won't overblow. i had planned to use it as a model for the reg reeds so i figure i'll just make six instead of three and three.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:39 pm

I'm expecting someone to confirm that a properly made traditional cane drone reed uses much less air than a double reed.

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:50 pm

ah...definitely a good thought. i'm sure it does, but the question is, since it's all synthetic reeds in this thing anyway, ynot.

i'll keep trying to get the single reeds to work...i think i'll try the double reed plastic again for a tongue

ohoh...and my plan c...get a $5 harmonica, and take it apart for its already in tune D reeds...just set them in a tubing body just like normal. those you know in advance are in tune, and i don't think the addition of $5 or $10 for a cheap harmonica will send the project overbudget...

but plastic first...

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:11 pm

What makes you think a D harmonica reed will play a D when inserted into a drone??

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:41 pm

i don't see why it wouldn't...it should vibrate at the same frequency...it's then jsut a matter of designing the brass tubing drone the right length/diameter so that it sounds maybe an octave lower than it does in the harmonica but still a D. seems doable.

plus, there are 19 other reeds in the harmonica...

it's just a thought if i can't get the plastic-tongue-in-brass-body to work, not something i'm going to run out and try tomorrow.

i try not to give updates on teh board cause i figure not everybody wants to be bothered with my little pet project...i like to keep them to the mailing list i put togehter, but questions are another story...

heres' one, tho...the composite reeds...do the tongues touch the body (sounds kinky) when "closed" like the cane reeds or do they pass completely thru the opening while vibrating like a harmonical reed in its plate?

DMQuinn · Post by **DMQuinn** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:41 pm

Tony wrote:What makes you think a D harmonica reed will play a D when inserted into a drone??

You know, it just might, if the resonance of the drone tube is right. That's the way the reeds of the sheng work, more or less. You’re still going to have to contend with pressure and swell. Does the instrument really need to be reinvented?

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:21 am

My guess is that steel and brass reeds from harmonicas will play kind of in tune even if the sound chamber is approx. But, I think you'll be in for a surprise at how easy they'll bend with pressure. The tongues bends all the way through the frame, unlike a UP drone reed. Getting harmonica reeds big enough for lower pitches will present yet another challange for air supply. I spend a lot of years playing harmonicas (even bass harmonicas, and 2' long chord harmonicas) and concertinas, and tuning the reeds for accordians, pump organs, concertinas, and harmonicas. You've got to be in pretty good shape to just keep one bass harnomica low reed going. That's why bass harmonica players tend to pop and alternate the notes rather than sustain them.

To get an idea of how much air it takes to get a larger bass sounding reed going, like one from an accordian, try exhausting the air out of a full size accordian sometime, with a couple of bass buttons depressed. I doubt if you could pump enough into an accordian with UP bellows to have enough left over for enough pressure to get the second octave in the chanter, all things being as efficient as possible.

But, that's just educated guessing.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:49 am

I have good luck with sound tone and stability using brass bodies and Arundo Donax tongues. I have the tenor pulling too much air just now but it is taking less as it blows in.

DMQuinn · Post by **DMQuinn** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:50 am

fancypiper wrote:I have good luck with sound tone and stability using brass bodies and Arundo Donax tongues. ...

That's a good idea. I like that.

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:58 am

I have been toying with the idea of free reeds for the regs, not the drones, but I am not having much success getting any information on how they work. The benefit would be that, once they were working, the amount of maintenance would be minimal compared to double reeds. If anyone could point me to a resource I would appreciate it.

Thx,

djm

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:10 am

A Yahoo search on 'free reeds' pulled up lots of information to read...

http://www.patmissin.com/history/whatis.html
http://www.asza.com/ihm.shtml#Free%20Reeds
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-reed_instrument

Kevin Popejoy · Post by **Kevin Popejoy** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:42 am

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:48 pm

Thanks for those links, Tony. The first one has nice pictures of "free reeds" and the last link has a nice description... "Free-reed instruments are musical instruments that produce sounds from a reed vibrating in a chamber, as opposed to "fixed reed" instruments, which use a vibrating reed "fixed" to (or vibrating against) some other part of the instrument."

That's what I was saying in the post above, and that's why a harmonica/accordian reed takes more air supply and will bend the note with pressure....it flaps freely in both directions, it doesn't clap shut against a flat surface while vibrating. That's the beauty in cane reeds, or cane tubes with brass tongues tied onto them...they clap shut against a fixed surface, thereby using less air.